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What if Ned was declared Hand of the King inmediately after the War of the Usurper?0


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#1 Jose Stark

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:20 AM

Would the events of asoiaf be any different with Ned's presence in King's Landing in his prime? What is the future of house stark, tyrell, baratheon, lannister and targeryen of ned was there to run the kingdom and influenced robert?
Would the lannister be this powerful? Would joffrey be this evil? Would the realm be better positioned economically? Would robert be more loved with the realm ran by someone who cared so much about hia bannermen?

#2 joluoto

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:34 AM

Jon Arryn was better suited, and Ned would have hated it. The Realm was rebuilt on the alliance of the Stag and the Lion. We know Jon Arryn had some important diplomatic missions in his early career as Hand. Most important he bought the Martells back into the Realm. I don't see Ned as a good diplomat.

#3 Usrnmhsnomning

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:37 AM

Ned would have said no, advised Robert to appoint Jon, and gone home.

#4 GallowsKnight

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:39 AM

That raises a few questions then. Would Jon Arryn stay on the council? Would Benjen take the black or be the Castellan of Winterfell? Where is Jon Snow sent?

I think the realm would better for, but the North might suffer without Ned's presence. There's no one to keep an eye on the Boltons, Ironborn or the Wall.

But a council with Ned as the Hand, Jon Arryn as the Master of Laws and Stannis as Master and ships might be able to keep Robert under control and the Realm in harmony.

And if Joffrey grew up alongside with Robb (with possibly Jon Snow and/or later Theon Greyjoy), he might be a little less psychotic, incest or not.

Edited by GallowsKnight, 02 July 2013 - 02:42 AM.


#5 Barty

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:49 AM

I dont think the incest would have taken place. Ned would be extremely suspicious of the Lannisters, especially Jaime, and would have kept a very close watch on them.

Edited by Barty, 02 July 2013 - 02:49 AM.


#6 Minsc

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:59 AM

There would be no Sansa, Arya, Bran, or Rickon as Ned would have gotten himself killed before they were ever conceived.

#7 joluoto

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:14 AM

There would be no Sansa, Arya, Bran, or Rickon as Ned would have gotten himself killed before they were ever conceived.

Or he would be so busy governing that he has no time for husband duties.

#8 TalalOfDorne

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:34 AM

He would screw up and who knows what he might start. Poor guy.

#9 Tony Soprano

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:47 AM

The Realm would be in an even worse shape. Ned was a good man, but he was a very poor statesman. Jon Arryn was the best person for the job at that time, and even he couldn't fix all of Robert's shit.

I dont think the incest would have taken place. Ned would be extremely suspicious of the Lannisters, especially Jaime, and would have kept a very close watch on them.


Did he have a reason to be suspicious of anything? He didn't know anything more than Jon Arryn. He didn't like the Lannisters, but he had no reasons or pointers to be suspicious of them.

#10 GallowsKnight

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:51 AM

A lot of people seem to assume Ned would immediately fail. You have to bear in mind Ned would have the assistance of Jon Arryn and possibly Stannis Baratheon. The Lannisters wouldn't have gained as significant control over Robert, Kingslanding and the realm, as well as technically not being their enemies at that point as the incest hasn't occurred nor any attempt on Robert's life. Littlefinger is just a rising star. Varys and Illyrio are plotting but Viserys, Daenarys and Young Griff are all too young to make a move.

Ned has time to learn his job and really the best advantage is that he can convince Robert to listen to Jon Arryn's advice.

The Realm would be in an even worse shape. Ned was a good man, but he was a very poor statesman. Jon Arryn was the best person for the job at that time, and even he couldn't fix all of Robert's shit.

But it doesn't have to be Ned or Jon Arryn. It could be both.

Edited by GallowsKnight, 02 July 2013 - 03:52 AM.


#11 Morienthar

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:52 AM

Ned wouldn't have become hand at that point without punishing the Lannisters and especially Jaime..
So there would be another war,Bob and Ned on one side and Tyrells and Lannisters on the other.

#12 elmis

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:59 AM

Robert should have made Tywin his hand. If he had, I am all but certain he would still be alive, there would have been no war, and the realm would be much better suited to face the coming winter. The Martells would gnash their teeth, but they could have been quelled (or crushed) easily enough.

#13 GallowsKnight

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:59 AM

So there would be another war,Bob and Ned on one side and Tyrells and Lannisters on the other.

Why would the Tyrells fight for the Lannisters? They've already dipped their banners to Robert. It's gonna look bad if they break that oath. I imagine they'd wait opportunistically while the two sides duke it out and join the winner when they can.

#14 Morienthar

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:00 AM

Why would the Tyrells fight for the Lannisters? They've already dipped their banners to Robert. It's gonna look bad if they break that oath. I imagine they'd wait opportunistically while the two sides duke it out and join the winner when they can.

The Tyrells were/are power grabbers the Lannisters at the end of RR had the most men.

#15 GallowsKnight

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:05 AM

The Tyrells were/are power grabbers the Lannisters at the end of RR had the most men.


The Lannisters had more fresh men, yes. But collectively King Robert had four kingdoms (Vale, Riverlands, North and Stormlands)on his side. Joining the Lannisters means a long drawn out war. Joining Robert or better waiting while making excuses about mustering forces is safer.

Robert's coalition also has veteran soldiers and commanders.

Edited by GallowsKnight, 02 July 2013 - 04:06 AM.


#16 Fauch

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:10 AM

Ned would have made a lousy hand. He showed, multiple times during AGoT that making compromises isn't exactly his forte...yet that's what governing a state is all about.

#17 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:48 AM

Dorne would be tied to the Seven Kingdoms again, and Tyrion Lannister would be Lord of Casterly Rock, after having Jaime executed or at the very least sent to the Wall for killing his king and Tywin losing a war of revenge against the whole realm. Cersei would be somewhere in the Westerlands, being married to a minor Lord. Varys would be put to the pasture and LF would never join the Small Council. By and large, most destabilizing influences in the realm would be gone.

People assume Ned to be a bad politician, but he performed well, when he had the time and the authority to actually do something. The stance of the Northmen towards him proves that. His problem in KL was that he just started the race while everybody else had 15 years to advance and that Robert denied lending him authority when he most needed it. And still he was close to winning.

#18 Fauch

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:08 AM

Tywin would have never gone to war against the whole realm because Ned might have sent Jaime to the wall. Tywin Lannister is no mans fool, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would start a war he cannot win.

Wasn't the whole point of sacking Kings Landing to establish the Lannisters firmly on Roberts side in the Rebellion?

Ned performed well when he was Lord, and what he said was the law. He didn't perform well when he was merely a lord amongst equals. Ned would probably have also been frustrated with how bad a King Robert would have become, since it's pretty obvious that Robert never had it in him to be a good King.
Now if Ned was made King, things could have been very different indeed.

Edited by Fauche, 02 July 2013 - 06:13 AM.


#19 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:30 AM

Tywin would have never gone to war against the whole realm because Ned might have sent Jaime to the wall. Tywin Lannister is no mans fool, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would start a war he cannot win.

Like attacking the Riverlands while they are allied with the North and the Vale, Dorne hates the Lannisters, the Iron Islands are likely to join the North, the Tyrells scheme to replace the Lannisters and the King is Ned Stark's best friend?

Tywin Lannister isn't exactly rational when it comes to his family.

#20 Fauch

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:39 AM

True. However, here it is not Tywin who starts the war. Catelyn sets things off by taking Tyrion captive, so Tywin has every right to call the banners.

Dorne hates the Lannisters, but Doran Martell is unlikely to declare war any point.

The Iron Islands aren't likely at all to join the North. How did you get that idea?

The plot to replace Cersei as queen was hatched by Renly and Loras, I wouldn't exactly say "the Tyrells are behind this".

The King is not only Ned Stark's friend, but also Cersei's husband.


In case you had forgotten, Robert is not at all like "Tywin broke the peace, let's raise a host and smash him Ned". He's more like: Catelyn was wrong to take the imp, better settle this asap.