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R+L=J v.54


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#1 Angalin

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:55 PM

As per usual. And stay on topic, please.

#2 Dio Forel

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:44 PM

lollllllll round 54. With regard to casting Rhaegar... stop giving me hope, it will never happen! I don't picture Rhaegar as Brad Pitt... Orlando Bloom... or Jax from SOA... How about Alex Pettyfer? A blond Ben Barnes? For Lyanna...Jennifer Lawrence... Kate Beckinsale... Keira Knightley (although Lyanna I picture more attractive)....

Anyway... the fun in this for me is picturing any of these 2 mating... and would they then combine to conceive Jon Snow. I say maybeeeeeeee.

But, again, I digress.... R + L = more unknown than the legacy of Podrick's sexual prowess on the show.... and that is a very sad fact.

More on topic... combine a lot of the personality traits of Lyanna & Rhaegar and I would say they add up to be the epitome of what Jon is. Melancholic.... intelligent.... stoic..... a warrior at heart.... and definitely rebellious to the point of being willing to betray his vows for what he feels is right... (Lyanna betrayed a lot to be with Rhaegar herself). A lot of the romantic interactions between JS & Ygritte also make me think of the relationship of Rhaegar/Lyanna... There are just so many things making this seem so very likely. I feel like the only reason it wouldn't be R + L = J is for the sake of not seeming obvious.. Even though it is far from fact at this point. GRRM could introduce many new clues to change my mind. But for now.... my opinion stands.

ETA: JS definitely loves his fire... Ygritte = Kissed By Fire.... Red = Fire... This makes Jon gravitate towards her and betray all his vows... Yeah I'm just reaching for connections so what... I'm tired lol

Edited by Dio Forel, 03 July 2013 - 11:49 PM.


#3 Alia of the knife

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:52 PM

quote name='The Wolfswood' timestamp='1372907572' post='4672315']

I was never a fan of the Aegon marrying Arianne theory, myself. I think it's a bad move for both Aegon and Arianne. There's no real benefit in them being wed, although I could see Arianne going for Aegon since, IIRC, he's got pretty good looks. But militarily and politically, the Martells are natural allies with the Targaryens... although, I suppose being first cousins, that would be right up Aegon's alley.
Truthfully, I was always more receptive to tze's theory that Arianne and Jon might be a potential match for each other.


Fair enough you're probably right lol. /thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' /> The only reason I think Arianne marrying YG is most likely going to happen is because A. like you said Arianne could most definitely go against Doran's wishes and push for marriage so she can be queen. Or B. even if the Martells don't believe Faegon is legit, Doran still might go along with the lie, for the sake of achieving their revenge and I suspect there will be some sort of miscommunication about the circumstances of Quentyn's death that will turn Dorne away from Dany leaving Faegon as their only option. Therefore Doran would seek to marry Arianne to Faegon, and pretend he's legit that, way when he takes the throne the Martells would ensure that any future children Arianne and Faegon would have will be royalty of Martell blood. Varys 'power' speech always creeps back into my mind, I just have a hunch that Doran will know that Aegon is fake, but will use that to House Martells advantage....




Both of you make very good points, and I would add that I agree that I could very well see Arianne lying to her Father about what she thinks of Faegon.
In fact, she might think this kindler, gentler, (though I don't think he is), "Gerold Dayne" might be someone she could manipulate to make herself Queen, again impetuously going against Doran's wishes.
(I've always thought she wanted to emulate the Red Viper anyway, and looked up to him more so than her Father, who I actually like).


Love TZE's theories, and yes, I could actually see Jon and Arianne as a match. He might be more inclined of any man to not be threatened by Arianne.


But again, like Rome, all roads lead to Jon due to his unique bloodline through R+L.


Also, Oberyn as been cast, a Chilean Actor,


Edit: As a heads-up there is a separate thread for this particular topic under "Casting" if anyone wants to take a look.

Edited by Alia of the knife, 03 July 2013 - 11:53 PM.


#4 Ittiz

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:13 AM

I was thinking that even if Jon is Jon Targaryen and TPTWP it doesn't mean he will sit the Iron throne, just fight the others.

#5 Red.Queen

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:29 AM

I was thinking that even if Jon is Jon Targaryen and TPTWP it doesn't mean he will sit the Iron throne, just fight the others.


You're right, it certainly doesn't mean that he will sit in the IT. In fact, most Jon fans (myself included) think that he won't (and shouldn't) sit in the IT. Personally, I also think that, in the end, there won't be an IT for anyone to sit on.

#6 Jory Cassel

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:15 AM

Reference guide.

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories

Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targ fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is probably the legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the KG opted to stay at the TOJ stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a KG vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty. For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practised in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the KG at ToJ on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in lineany time after the situation started to look really serious. Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the KG might have stayed at ToJ, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the ASOIAF readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 15 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Quote

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread 22a)

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J #33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

"R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)

R+L=J v. 41 (thread forty-one)

R+L=J v.42 (thread forty-two)

R+L=J v. 43 (thread forty-three)

R+L=J v.44 (thread forty-four)

R+L=J v.45 (thread forty-five)

R+L=J v.46 (thread forty-six)

R+L=J v.47 (thread forty-seven)

R+L=J v. 48 (thread forty-eight)

R+L=J v.49 (thread forty-nine)

R+L=J v. 50 (thread fifty)

R+L=J v.51 (thread fifty-one)


R+L=J v.52 (thread fifty-two)

R+L=J v.53 (thread fifty-three)

#7 Nami

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:21 AM

lollllllll round 54. With regard to casting Rhaegar... stop giving me hope, it will never happen! I don't picture Rhaegar as Brad Pitt... Orlando Bloom... or Jax from SOA... How about Alex Pettyfer? A blond Ben Barnes? For Lyanna...Jennifer Lawrence... Kate Beckinsale... Keira Knightley (although Lyanna I picture more attractive)....

Anyway... the fun in this for me is picturing any of these 2 mating... and would they then combine to conceive Jon Snow. I say maybeeeeeeee.

But, again, I digress.... R + L = more unknown than the legacy of Podrick's sexual prowess on the show.... and that is a very sad fact.

More on topic... combine a lot of the personality traits of Lyanna & Rhaegar and I would say they add up to be the epitome of what Jon is. Melancholic.... intelligent.... stoic..... a warrior at heart.... and definitely rebellious to the point of being willing to betray his vows for what he feels is right... (Lyanna betrayed a lot to be with Rhaegar herself). A lot of the romantic interactions between JS & Ygritte also make me think of the relationship of Rhaegar/Lyanna... There are just so many things making this seem so very likely. I feel like the only reason it wouldn't be R + L = J is for the sake of not seeming obvious.. Even though it is far from fact at this point. GRRM could introduce many new clues to change my mind. But for now.... my opinion stands.

ETA: JS definitely loves his fire... Ygritte = Kissed By Fire.... Red = Fire... This makes Jon gravitate towards her and betray all his vows... Yeah I'm just reaching for connections so what... I'm tired lol


I also thought that maybe Jon and Ygritte's relationship was an indirect hint at R+L
Jon having his father's personality: dutiful, able, deep in thoughts, melancholic
and Ygritte like Lyanna: daring, teasing, wild
And those types are attracted to each other

#8 Alia of the knife

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

I also thought that maybe Jon and Ygritte's relationship was an indirect hint at R+L
Jon having his father's personality: dutiful, able, deep in thoughts, melancholic
and Ygritte like Lyanna: daring, teasing, wild
And those types are attracted to each other



But, it does make you also wonder about Jons "beserker" moment when he had to be dragged out of a fight, if Rhaegar ever a few moment like that?


I wonder what his reaction was when he realized that Lyanna was his cousins betrothed, who was also pretty hot himself? /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />
Or, whenever Aerys beat his mother.

I know we don't know of any moments when Rhaegar went "dragon" on anyone, but Jaimie in his dreams remembers the "iron" tone of Rhaegars voice.

It's the quiet ones you always have to watch.



The Red Viper Casted:

Here is the Chilean actor, Pedro Pascal http://www-deadline-...pedropascal.jpg

Edited by Alia of the knife, 04 July 2013 - 09:31 AM.


#9 FrozenFire3

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

But, it does make you also wonder about Jons "beserker" moment when he had to be dragged out of a fight, if Rhaegar ever a few moment like that?


I wonder what his reaction was when he realized that Lyanna was his cousins betrothed, who was also pretty hot himself? /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />
Or, whenever Aerys beat his mother.

I know we don't know of any moments when Rhaegar went "dragon" on anyone, but Jaimie in his dreams remembers the "iron" tone of Rhaegars voice.

It's the quiet ones you always have to watch.


I've always wondered if there was a touch of 'dragon waking' in Rhaegar's blood too...
Talking of the iron tones of Rhaegar's voice, I tried to find a few symbolic or merely textual links between Rhaegar and Jon (besides all the 'king', 'dragons' and 'Targaryen' symbolism we have frequently debated).
The first that comes to mind is embodied by Donal Noye. There is such a tragic irony in their relationship. He, the forger of the weapon that killed Jon's father, is a mentor figure for him. The one who gives him stern but wise advice, who trusts him with command (the Wall is yours), whose quarters behind the armory end up being the new Lord Commander's residence.
Another more subtle link is Noye's voice. He has a lord's voice, Jon reflects. And remembers what Ned told him, that in battle a captain's lungs are as important as his sword arm. In Jon's mind a powerful voice is directly connected to a leader's voice. Jamie's recalling the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, prince of Dragonstone adds an impressive touch to Jon's musings.
Second and mirror-like to Donal Noye's is Jon's relationship to Alliser Thorne. His merciless nemesis on the Wall was a Targaryen loyalist who fought bravely at King's Landing. Tragic irony seems to be Jon's life leitmotiv. Shuddering at the thought ot the 'big reveal' reaching Thorne's ears...
Last but not least a peculiar little tale, courtesy of Sam in aFfC.

There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind?


Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (metaphorically Rhaegar, the Silver Prince) left an egg (an offspring or even better a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.
Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:

King's blood, to wake a dragon. Where Melisandre thinks to find a sleeping dragon, no one is quite sure. It's nonsense. Mance's blood is no more royal than mine own.


This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.
That's all folks /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Leaving for London on the morrow for London Film and Comic Con. Anybody there for a R+L=Jers reunion? LOL

#10 AegonSnow

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

Rhaegar casting ---- Heath Ledger

he was so amazing in A Knight's Tale

and when HBO finally does get around to telling us THAT part of the story, time travel might have been invented.

#11 Alia of the knife

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:30 PM

I've always wondered if there was a touch of 'dragon waking' in Rhaegar's blood too...
Talking of the iron tones of Rhaegar's voice, I tried to find a few symbolic or merely textual links between Rhaegar and Jon (besides all the 'king', 'dragons' and 'Targaryen' symbolism we have frequently debated).
The first that comes to mind is embodied by Donal Noye. There is such a tragic irony in their relationship. He, the forger of the weapon that killed Jon's father, is a mentor figure for him. The one who gives him stern but wise advice, who trusts him with command (the Wall is yours), whose quarters behind the armory end up being the new Lord Commander's residence.
Another more subtle link is Noye's voice. He has a lord's voice, Jon reflects. And remembers what Ned told him, that in battle a captain's lungs are as important as his sword arm. In Jon's mind a powerful voice is directly connected to a leader's voice. Jamie's recalling the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, prince of Dragonstone adds an impressive touch to Jon's musings.
Second and mirror-like to Donal Noye's is Jon's relationship to Alliser Thorne. His merciless nemesis on the Wall was a Targaryen loyalist who fought bravely at King's Landing. Tragic irony seems to be Jon's life leitmotiv. Shuddering at the thought ot the 'big reveal' reaching Thorne's ears...
Last but not least a peculiar little tale, courtesy of Sam in aFfC.



Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (metaphorically Rhaegar, the Silver Prince) left an egg (an offspring or even better a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.
Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:



This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.
That's all folks /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Leaving for London on the morrow for London Film and Comic Con. Anybody there for a R+L=Jers reunion? LOL


I do think the dragon was awakened in Rhaegar, and I think his love for Lyanna was a catalyst.

When you think of his words to Jaimie, "it was something I should have done along time ago, but ahh, best not to speak of roads not taken," in reference to likely removing his Father, it reads to me like someone who has been trapped by the lethargy that depression, or "melancholy" sometimes brings until something galvanizes them into action.
He seems to have thought of doing it, and perhaps Harrenhal was apart of that, but, perhaps with a lot of things in his life, he lost interest- until Lyanna.
Rhaegar could definitely have Lyanna much easier as King, or at least to make her his choice rather than Aerys making another choice for him as he did with the first wife.

I believe it was not only his love of Lyanna, but because of perhaps the energy she embodied.
As was said in "Dune" and I know I quote this ad nauseam myself but "the sleeper must awaken," (as well as the dragon), and the same must happen for Jon, the boy must be killed and the dragon born.

I also think the power of iron and it's properties are definitely a reference of Martins, and the power that lies within irony.

As for Sam Tarlys musings, I don't think they can be highlighted enough /bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />


Have a safe trip, and have fun.!!!! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':laugh:' />

Edited by Alia of the knife, 05 July 2013 - 12:58 AM.


#12 Anderson Homeu

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

what of aegon wasn't rhagers son, but aerys. what if aerys raped elia, making aegon the brother of rhager. then jon is the only legitmate heir left.

#13 Alia of the knife

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

what of aegon wasn't rhagers son, but aerys. what if aerys raped elia, making aegon the brother of rhager. then jon is the only legitmate heir left.


That is actually something that once crossed my mind, but, for some reason, I got the feeling he also looked down on Elia as well though she be Dornish.

#14 Lady Gwynhyfvar

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:55 PM

I've always wondered if there was a touch of 'dragon waking' in Rhaegar's blood too...
Talking of the iron tones of Rhaegar's voice, I tried to find a few symbolic or merely textual links between Rhaegar and Jon (besides all the 'king', 'dragons' and 'Targaryen' symbolism we have frequently debated).
The first that comes to mind is embodied by Donal Noye. There is such a tragic irony in their relationship. He, the forger of the weapon that killed Jon's father, is a mentor figure for him. The one who gives him stern but wise advice, who trusts him with command (the Wall is yours), whose quarters behind the armory end up being the new Lord Commander's residence.
Another more subtle link is Noye's voice. He has a lord's voice, Jon reflects. And remembers what Ned told him, that in battle a captain's lungs are as important as his sword arm. In Jon's mind a powerful voice is directly connected to a leader's voice. Jamie's recalling the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, prince of Dragonstone adds an impressive touch to Jon's musings.
Second and mirror-like to Donal Noye's is Jon's relationship to Alliser Thorne. His merciless nemesis on the Wall was a Targaryen loyalist who fought bravely at King's Landing. Tragic irony seems to be Jon's life leitmotiv. Shuddering at the thought ot the 'big reveal' reaching Thorne's ears...
Last but not least a peculiar little tale, courtesy of Sam in aFfC.



Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (metaphorically Rhaegar, the Silver Prince) left an egg (an offspring or even better a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.
Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:



This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.
That's all folks /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Leaving for London on the morrow for London Film and Comic Con. Anybody there for a R+L=Jers reunion? LOL

Brilliant correlation, as usual! /bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />

Have fun in London! Wish I was going.
I myself will be spending the next 2-1/2 weeks on a family holiday in Denmark... Maybe time for a little NCW stalking though, lol /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#15 Ygrain

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:01 AM

I started re-reading AGOT for - well, I don't really know how many times I have read it - and there are still pieces I haven't paid attention to so far. They have certainly been picked on before, but I guess it won't hurt to throw them in here :-)

Ned has grey eyes. Jon's eyes are so dark grey that they look black - meaning, his eyes are darker than Ned's?

When they find the pups, Jon hears Ghost wailing although no-one else does - does this mean that he doesn't actually hear him but sense him through his unwoken warg talent?

#16 Ghost's Shadow

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:43 AM

Ygrain, I think the eyes thing fits in nicely with Lyanna's grey eyes (I think she did, as she had the Stark look, and Rhaegar's very dark purple eyes - didn't it say that the eyes were getting darker and darker through the generations or something)?

So yeah, he doesn't have the Stark grey eyes completely.

And about Ghost: that's what people are thinking. An early warging experience. Or perhaps a nudge from the Gods. It was only Jon who heard, so very odd indeed.

I like these little details. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#17 Moonray

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 06:28 AM

Jon eyes culd be slate grey collored. They are darker than grey, because in Real life there have a bit dark blue thrown... in Song of Ice and Fire it culd be dark purple eyes.

Isn't Ghost mute, so Jon posibly hadn't heard him but more of a sense but interperted as a hearing him? Or perhaps it is the same as when he realy wanted a direwolf want and then you are drawn to it /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />

#18 Lady Gwynhyfvar

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

An interesting tidbit for RLJers... I'm spending the 4th of July holiday with some people who watch the show but have not read the books. I'm always fascinated to see what that experience leads you to think (about many things asoiaf related, but RLJ especially) so I asked the question- "who do you think Jon Snow's father is?" One immediatly said Robert Baratheon, the other seemed genuinely shocked by the possibility that it might not be Ned. When pressed on the mother, the King Bob proponent favored "some whore" while the Ned "accepter" had nothing to offer. When I asked the King Bob + whore person why Jon would look like a Stark if he wasn't one, he offered coincidence as one possibility and then reluctantly admitted that he had heard a "really odd" theory that maybe Jon's parents were Rhaegar Targaryen and Ned's sister. In his opinion though, RB is more likely. Neither person could explain the significance of Rhaegar Targaryen, someone 15 years dead, being mentioned enough in the show that they knew who he was. Interesting bit of perspective, I thought. For what it's worth the non- book reader that watches with me on a regular basis is well schooled in picking up what tiny hints the show offers /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#19 Ittiz

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:36 AM

Not sure how accurate that is since Rhaegar says "there needs to be one more." So that implies he believed that Elia's children were his. I think the main reason why Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna was to get the third head Elia couldn't give him. Although this is the obvious reason and GRRM may be just trying to lead us off the wrong path with that one.

#20 Nami

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:50 AM

I think they will mention Rhaegar a lot more in season 4, since it's when the Martells will be introduced and the whole Elia tragedy too
I hope they explore this oportunity instead of pointless sex scenes, like I'm sure they will do it with Oberyn Martell. Not excited for it.
They will have a gold oportunity, like they had a lot in season 3, but...damn it season 3 pisses me off. That was an atrocity and such a waste of time