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Water dancing vs Westerosi Knights


117 replies to this topic

#1 repbypop

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

Do you think that water dancing fighting style is effective in a battlefield or its just for duels ?

Do you think a water dancing fighter can overpowered a skilled knight like Gregor ?

It seems to me that water dancing are more for people who are pretty quick and not really strong physically like Syrio. But apart for practice, how good a fighter who learn this form of fighting can held his own with a Westeros Fighter. And Whats kind of sword did they use, Longsword or a much lighter sword, or others weapons ?

#2 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:18 PM

seems like a bunch of waterdancers would get slaughtered on a battlefield

#3 TheMysteriousOne

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

LOL, the Westerosi knights would slaughter the water dancers.

#4 Mad Monkey

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:21 PM

One on one or small skirmishes, yes. Large scale battles, no. Incidentally, I think a water dancer would make a good addition to a Kingsguard; they seem to be good at being body guards.

Edited by Mad Monkey, 06 July 2013 - 09:22 PM.


#5 mighty potato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:42 PM

in battle the water dancers are useless they don't wear sufficient armor so even light cavalry would go through them try and emagine heavy cavalry on destriers 2700 pounds going through you nasty businesses

as for single combat yes we have seen similar styles that prefer speed over strength succeed before like bronn vs ser vardis and the red viper vs the mountain but i think this would only succeed in single combat as it's mostly about misdirection and trying to wear out your opponent which really wouldn't work against multiple enemies (too much to dodge and keep track of )

and the strength of bravos comes from its ships "bravos has no walls our ships are our walls" so they didn't train professional armies like westeros and with the great wealth of bravos they could always rely on sellsword companies thus the art of water dancing was developed individually and not to support a unit

of course all of this is just my own personal analysis and opinions so you could just throw it out the window

#6 repbypop

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

That's what i thought, Essos fighting style in overall seems very weak compare to knights training, no to mention they lack of good weapons and no armor. It would be impossible for a waterdancer to fight with a armor and a heavy weapon, it's a big disavantage against a knight. But i think they can beat men at arms ?

#7 nQthing

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:50 PM

The westrosi knights have the advantage, but the red viper shows a smart and quick fighter can fight the mountain. And most westrosi knights are half the size of ser Gregor

#8 Winters

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:50 PM

Water-dancing is soley an individual form of combat. One-on-one or in irregular situations (night attacks, ambushes) it is pretty clear that WD have an advantage. However, in a straight up slugfest with hundreds of soldiers (sieges, pitched barttles) the WD has no room to maneuver. He/she would be unable to breach the enemy line of armored infantry and be cut down, or be run down by a charge of any cavalry.

#9 mighty potato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:52 PM

That's what i thought, Essos fighting style in overall seems very weak compare to knights training, no to mention they lack of good weapons and no armor. It would be impossible for a waterdancer to fight with a armor and a heavy weapon, it's a big disavantage against a knight. But i think they can beat men at arms ?


it's not about who can they beat it's about how long can they hold the lines and if your lines will get scattered from one cavalry charge then you've already lost

#10 Korgon The Reaver

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:52 PM

One could argue that Bronn "waterdanced" Ser Eggan right out the Moon Door.

#11 Winters

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:57 PM

That's what i thought, Essos fighting style in overall seems very weak...

Note that water dancing is only practiced by braavosi bravos and their followers. The vast majority of Essos (Free Cities) has more traditional combat styles, whether it be heavy cavalry/medium infantry (Gold Co) or heavy spearmen (unsullied), or even just good old medium variety infantry (Second Sons, most mercs)

#12 Leif

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:59 PM

Water Dancing doesn't have to be 1v1 - as Syrio took on several soliders at once. But it doesn't seem very viable on the battlefield. When you're back-to-back and shoulder-to-shoulder with enemy soldiers, there's really not that much room to move around. So duel-wise - Water Dancing takes it, in war - knights win.

#13 thesmilingspider

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:59 PM

Water dancing is very effective in single combat, I think. Unarmored gives them the advantage of speed, but I think that a water dancer would be effective as a champion in trial by combat, if they knew what they were doing. It seems that it's a good method for covert violence, such as escaping from someplace, or sneaking in past guards.

In open battle, against cavalry? No chance.

Then again, a Westerosi knight with light armor is no match for a bravo in Essos, I think.

#14 Jasta11

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

I doubt water dancers are supposed to participate in large-scale battles. They're intended to be bodyguards, duelists, that sort of thing. Braavos doesn't really need a professional army anyhow. That's why Ned fetched Syrio for Arya after all; not to train her for war, but to be a personnal defense teacher.

In a duel, however? Assuming the WD has an actual weapon and the knight is in full armor? Well, Bronn vs Ser whatshisname and Oberyn vs Gregor has shown us speed and skill are indeed very useful in such situations. Syrio made a mockery of several Lannister guardsmen with a wooden sword but he was, after all, First Sword, the cream of the world's duelists. I think a ''normal'' WD against an average knight (Bronn,s opponent is probably a good example) would end up with a victorious WD, but not very easily. Let,s remember Bronn almost lost that battle after eating a shield charge.

#15 repbypop

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:03 PM

it's not about who can they beat it's about how long can they hold the lines and if your lines will get scattered from one cavalry charge then you've already lost


I think it's depend against who they fight and what kind of weapons they carry during the battle. For example, against knights they don't have a chance, but against normal cavalry i would say a spear can give them a good advantage, but i don't know if they use spears.

#16 repbypop

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

And do you think that Syrio could have won against Ser Meryn Trant if he was fighting with a real weapon ?

#17 repbypop

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

Note that water dancing is only practiced by braavosi bravos and their followers. The vast majority of Essos (Free Cities) has more traditional combat styles, whether it be heavy cavalry/medium infantry (Gold Co) or heavy spearmen (unsullied), or even just good old medium variety infantry (Second Sons, most mercs)


I know, But we don't know how good Braavosis are against others esso fighters, maybe they are good fighters and their water dancing training give them a edge on their opponents, maybe not against knights, but against Dothraki for example.

#18 mighty potato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:10 PM

I think it's depend against who they fight and what kind of weapons they carry during the battle. For example, against knights they don't have a chance, but against normal cavalry i would say a spear can give them a good advantage, but i don't know if they use spears.

i don't think they do but again you forget they wear light to no armor even with light cavalry the horse alone weighs between 1500-2000 pounds which should be more than enough to break the line and stance of a what 220 generous pounds per soldier and once they break you have the ground and the day

Edited by mighty potato, 06 July 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#19 Lord Reaver

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:11 PM

Let,s remember Bronn almost lost that battle after eating a shield charge.


Let's also remember Bronn won that battle because GRRM had a statue fall on his opponent. That duel is way overused as an example of how lightly armored fighters can win against heavier armored ones.

#20 mighty potato

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:16 PM

Let's also remember Bronn won that battle because GRRM had a statue fall on his opponent. That duel is way overused as an example of how lightly armored fighters can win against heavier armored ones.


quite frankly i find that to be the best example because it shows both the bad and good about this style the risk and the reward