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Why is Littlefinger revealing his plans to Sansa?


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#1 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

Littlefinger reveals a great deal of his future plans to Sansa in AFFC and he also reveals that Lyn Cordray is working for him and I've read a lot of speculation that this shows that Litttlefinger is infatuated with Sansa and he can't help bragging and spilling the beans to her and this will lead to his downfall. This very well may be true but I think that Littlefinger is being very clever in what he reveals to her and why he does it. Littlefinger is not hiding Sansa away in some castle instead he has her front and center as his bastard daughter and anytime she wants to she can reveal to anyone who she really is and can implicate Littlfinger in various crimes. Because of this Littlefinger has to be really careful that she is sufficently "programmed" to not reveal anything to anyone and she needs to truly believe that it is in her best interest to do what he says.

The first thing he did is implicate her in Joffreys death and then save her from Cersie so she is terrified of being sent back to Kings Landing and she is grateful that he saved her. People often forget that from Sansa's point of view Littlefinger is the only one who ever helped her and he is the one who saved her from the Lannisters.

Littlefinger likes to say "do not trust anyone" and Sansa has learned that lesson better than anyone since everybody she has met has either betrayed her or let her down and Littlefinger reinforces that paranoia when he reveals that Lyn Cordray was working for him which at that time was one of the last people that she would have suspected of being a Littlefinger spy. She will be very wary of revealing anything to the Vale Lords even the Royces and even if Blackfish comes to the Vale she would have a hard time trusting him .

If revealing that Lyn was his spy all along was the stick then telling her about Harry the Heir and retaking the North is the carrot and will keep her in line for a long time. Littlefinger needs her to believe that he is looking out for her future so he will constantly reinforce the belief that she will have Winterfell in time so she will do what he says and stay in line.

Littlefinger may have the hots for Sansa but I have hard time believing that he will allow that to destroy his plans and if she becomes a problem he would have little trouble throwing her under the bus. As for Sansa out playing Littlefinger in the Game of Thrones that is clearly a possibility but don't forget he has spent more time with her than anyone not named Stark and he knows how bright and clever and potentially dangerous she really is and he will be taking precautions against her turning on him.

#2 Tommens Cat

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

I think sansa was more southron than most starks were and is intrigued by the game, whereas most northerners could care less but since lf plans probably revolve around having a powerful figure head in the north sansa seems a good pawn to have

#3 otherbeef

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

like you said, LF has to dangle something to keep Sansa in line rather than her grow impatient with no future ahead of her. make her believe sticking with him is the best option.

EDIT: still a risk, as it hinges on how potentially Sansa uses this information for her own gains

Edited by otherbeef, 11 July 2013 - 03:52 PM.


#4 TalalOfDorne

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

He probably thinks she is too stupid to actually be a danger to him. Of course Sansa is proving to be anything but stupid.

Edited by TalalOfDorne, 11 July 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#5 DogLover

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

I actually think LF is revealing too much information to Sansa because, unlike Varys, he's a gambler who simply enjoys the thrill of playing the game and needs validation--validation he's seeking from Sansa. This "weakness" is something Sansa can use to her advantage and,if she chooses to do so, I don't think LF will see it coming.

Also, it was Sandor who taught Sansa not to trust anyone. And she thinks it was Sandor (who saved her from the riot) and Tyrion (who stopped a beating) who helped her, not LF, so I don't think she's as grateful to LF as you make her out to be.

#6 Mladen

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

The thing is you reversed the action and consequense. The consequence of LF saving Sansa is that her trust in him. He thinks he cornered her because if she tells anyone who she is, she will be in danger. Second, she does not recognize him as the only one who helped her in KL. There is a line where she says that Sandor and Tyrion were there for her, and not him. The point is he confides because he believes she is without a choice or exit. And that is his doom.

Talal, 16 -8

#7 otherbeef

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

I actually think LF is revealing too much information to Sansa because, unlike Varys, he's a gambler who simply enjoys the thrill of playing the game and needs validation--validation he's seeking from Sansa. This "weakness" is something Sansa can use to her advantage and,if she chooses to do so, I don't think LF will see it coming.

Also, it was Sandor who taught Sansa not to trust anyone. And she thinks it was Sandor (who saved her from the riot) and Tyrion (who stopped a beating) who helped her, not LF, so I don't think she's as grateful to LF as you make her out to be.


she does refer to LF as her one true friend or something like that in AFFC

#8 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

I actually think LF is revealing too much information to Sansa because, unlike Varys, he's a gambler who simply enjoys the thrill of playing the game and needs validation--validation he's seeking from Sansa. This "weakness" is something Sansa can use to her advantage and,if she chooses to do so, I don't think LF will see it coming.

Also, it was Sandor who taught Sansa not to trust anyone. And she thinks it was Sandor (who saved her from the riot) and Tyrion (who stopped a beating) who helped her, not LF, so I don't think she's as grateful to LF as you make her out to be.


I don't think that Littlefinger needs any validation , he is incredibly arrogant and thinks he is the smartest person in any room and does not need Sansa's validation. How is he a gambler ? it seems that he is very careful in any risks he takes.

Edited by Blackfish Tully, 11 July 2013 - 04:03 PM.


#9 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:03 PM

He probably thinks she is too stupid to actually be a danger to him. Of course Sansa is proving to be anything but stupid.


I addressed that in my post , Littlefinger has spent more time with Sansa then anyone who is not related to her and by now he knows how bright and clever she is ( she figured out that Lyn Cordray betrayed the Lords Declerant) and he will be very careful with her in the furure.

#10 Éadaoin

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

she does refer to LF as her one true friend or something like that in AFFC


But she also thinks just before that how she "would have fled them both, perhaps" (Petyr & LF) if there was anywhere for her to go.

Edited by Éadaoin, 11 July 2013 - 04:07 PM.


#11 TalalOfDorne

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:08 PM

But she also thinks just before that how she "would have fled them both, perhaps," (Petyr & LF) "if there was anywhere for her to go".


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' /> She tells him what he wants to hear.

#12 otherbeef

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:09 PM

I addressed that in my post , Littlefinger has spent more time with Sansa then anyone who is not related to her and by now he knows how bright and clever she is ( she figured out that Lyn Cordray betrayed the Lords Declerant) and he will be very careful with her in the furure.


i mean just going by completely common sense he already blundered. he told Sansa every knight in the Vale will swear their sword to her once she reveals herself, and if she marries Harry the Heir and firmly has the support of the Vale, then what need does she have for LF? who she knows is a liar and behind several murders such as Jon Arryn and Lysa.

#13 mighty potato

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:13 PM

The thing is you reversed the action and consequense. The consequence of LF saving Sansa is that her trust in him. He thinks he cornered her because if she tells anyone who she is, she will be in danger. Second, she does not recognize him as the only one who helped her in KL. There is a line where she says that Sandor and Tyrion were there for her, and not him. The point is he confides because he believes she is without a choice or exit. And that is his doom.

Talal, 16 -8


this

and here i looked up the quote for you

"And Littlefinger was no friend of hers.
When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not
Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never
lifted so much as his little finger for her."

#14 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

i mean just going by completely common sense he already blundered. he told Sansa every knight in the Vale will swear their sword to her once she reveals herself, and if she marries Harry the Heir and firmly has the support of the Vale, then what need does she have for LF? who she knows is a liar and behind several murders such as Jon Arryn and Lysa.

Do you think that he would have told her those things if he was worried that she would use that against him? whatever plans he has told her about you can bet the true plans are something completely different and he will only reveal them when he is ready.

#15 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

this

and here i looked up the quote for you

"And Littlefinger was no friend of hers.
When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not
Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never
lifted so much as his little finger for her."


But by the end of AFFC she is completely dependent on Littlefinger and she knows that he is the one who saved her from Kings Landing and is the one who is protecting her from Cersie. We know as the reader that he was the one who set her up for Joffreys murder but she does not know that. She knows that her future and Littlefingers are tied together at this point and as long as he strings her along she will do his bidding.

#16 Ti-Guy

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

I don't think he reveals anything of his plan, he only let believe Sansa that this is the plan he's working on but I'm pretty sure he's got a real plan that he's following since the beginning (murder of Jon Arryn) and that Sansa had no part in it.

#17 The Real Targaryen

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

Littlefinger is telling her everything because he needs validation for his great work. The Lannisters (especially Cersei) know he's useful but think of him as something that they can control. He's been the master pulling the strings and getting the most out of this war, yet know one really can say "wow look how smart LF is, he went from nothing to Lord Paramount of the Riverlands & Lord Protector of the Vale." It's the same thing we hear all the time in this world "money doesn't buy happiness."

Also, even more so that getting the respect and admiration he wants, he is moving his affections from Catelyn onto Sansa. He loved Catelyn his whole life but she always thought him a lowborn child. Everything since then has been to prove to her that he is a genius and powerful. But Catelyn got married and then died so she couldn't see all of that and learn to appreciate him. So now he has Sansa. She's his new Catelyn and he doesn't just want to impress her, he needs to.

#18 DogLover

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:25 PM

I don't think that Littlefinger needs any validation , he is incredibly arrogant and thinks he is the smartest person in any room and does not need Sansa's validation. How is he a gambler ? it seems that he is very careful in any risks he takes.


He may not "need" Sansa's validation, but he does want it--he wants someone to recognize how "smart" he thinks he is. Cersie just may be right--what makes Varys so dangerous is his lack of a cock. LF is getting sloppy around Sansa by revealing too much.

Butterbumps! started a great thread comparing Varys and LF. It's worth a read:

http://asoiaf.wester...20#entry3802533

#19 Blackfish Tully

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

Littlefinger is telling her everything because he needs validation for his great work. The Lannisters (especially Cersei) know he's useful but think of him as something that they can control. He's been the master pulling the strings and getting the most out of this war, yet know one really can say "wow look how smart LF is, he went from nothing to Lord Paramount of the Riverlands & Lord Protector of the Vale." It's the same thing we hear all the time in this world "money doesn't buy happiness."

Also, even more so that getting the respect and admiration he wants, he is moving his affections from Catelyn onto Sansa. He loved Catelyn his whole life but she always thought him a lowborn child. Everything since then has been to prove to her that he is a genius and powerful. But Catelyn got married and then died so she couldn't see all of that and learn to appreciate him. So now he has Sansa. She's his new Catelyn and he doesn't just want to impress her, he needs to.


That makes Littlefinger too much like dime store comic book villiian who is announces his plans to his enemies and I have a hard time believing somebody who is careful enough to steal Sansa out from the noses of Varys and the Tyrells would be stupid enough to spout of his plans to Sansa because she reminds him of Cat.

#20 the Scorpion Knight

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

another fact that isn't mentioned he's drunk