In praise of Aegon VI Targaryen

[Lala]

I don't disagree that Aegon is likable, but I question how much he actually knows atm about the game of thrones - he has yet to personally experience the costs of the game and I'm fairly certain the magnitude of those costs is something he has, at best, book knowledge of. On the other hand, all of the other players are much more aware of these costs than he is and are much further along in their progress as characters. Stannis has lost many of his men, a good amount of his pride, and both his brothers. Dany has lost her husband, her child, and her illusions about peace. Sansa has lost her father, her brother, her mother, her home, and her identity. The list goes on~

As I've stated in previous threads~ I can't take Aegon seriously until he has lost something in the game of thrones. How he responds to that loss will be the defining moment of his character and the moment he realizes that the game is more than a simple cyvasse match.

[Rheagar Prime]

Lets not forget he saved that bitter Kin/King slayer even after that whole board game where he basically insulted him.

I don't care what anyone says he bares the name Targaryen so he has my backing no matter what. I know he will prove himself in the next books (although i do believe he will die but hey Valar Morghulis). He is a bit of a sexist though, but hey i think him having flaws is a good thing. Don't see why people are upset that he doesn't fit varys badass speech. To me makes him more interesting look how many people hate rhaegar because he was that on this board oh and that he ran off with a girl.

[TheStarkWolf]

Aegon is a test tube king. Varys created the PERFECT king. In theory, Aegon is everything Westeros needs: he appeals to the common folk, he is great in combat(supposedly), the highborns would love him......BUT he's TOO ideal. You can throw all the praise at him but I don't think he will sit the Iron Throne. I don't think he's capable of being king. And I don't think he woul make a great king. He's a noob. All the books and all that studying in the Free Cities doesn't compare to actually being raised in Westeros and growing up with Westerosi.

[Lord Elrosir]

Comparing Stannis, Daenerys, and Sansa's losses to Aegon is not completely fair. Aegon has been raised under the impression that his father, mother, and sister were all butchered. Even if he is a Blackfyre, he doesn't know that and its still very traumatic to think that your only family members were slain, with your father being struck down on the battlefield and your mother and sister being savagely killed and raped.

I love the idea of Aegon IV, and I really love re-reading all the chapters that feature him in ADWD. It is quite frankly the reason why I love ADWD and read it so often. I also liked the parallel with him raising Duck to the Kingsguard as Aegon V raised Dunk. His is a loyal lad, and that is a bright point concerning his personality. For all we know, he could be the second coming of Daemon Blackfyre, who was as much a Targaryen as anyone else (being sired by Aegon IV and Daena Targaryen; a true Targaryen bloodwise).

The only thing that worried me was him freezing up on the boat vs the grey guy aggressor. I hope he is not a coward, which I don't believe he is judging by him wanting to lead the attack of Storm's End. He probably just needs to get accustomed to fighting foes vs training (like Robb Stark).

Oh, and he will sit the Iron Throne. The crowds will cheer the return of the Dragon, and banners of cloth Dragons will litter King's Landing. I just realistically don't think it will be for very long, as he will dance with Daenerys, who I believe will win.

[Victor227]

We know from spoilers that he takes Storm's End, which is a pretty impressive feat all things considered. The plan, whatever it is, must be an amazing one, or the Golden Company has golden horseshoes up their rears. Stannis left two-hundred men at Storm's End under the command of a veteran, and two hundred men in Storm's End are worth two hundred thousand outside it. Added to the mix, you have a Reach army led by Mathis Rowan outside the gates (Mathis Rowan is considered one of the most sensible and well-liked commanders in Westeros, a Hand candidate by Kevan, and was the guy who advised Renly to attack Stannis the instant they could instead of waiting for -trickery- that wound up happening).

I want to see how this one goes down. I think it'll be the make-or-break for my opinion on Aegon. As is, I think the kid's got a lot of potential, and the whole 'bitter exiles who've learned from their mistakes' thing that the Golden Company and JC has going on is great. I loved 'The Griffin Reborn' chapter personally.

[Lala]

Comparing Stannis, Daenerys, and Sansa's losses to Aegon is not completely fair. Aegon has been raised under the impression that his father, mother, and sister were all butchered. Even if he is a Blackfyre, he doesn't know that and its still very traumatic to think that your only family members were slain, with your father being struck down on the battlefield and your mother and sister being savagely killed and raped.

I love the idea of Aegon IV, and I really love re-reading all the chapters that feature him in ADWD. It is quite frankly the reason why I love ADWD and read it so often. I also liked the parallel with him raising Duck to the Kingsguard as Aegon V raised Dunk. His is a loyal lad, and that is a bright point concerning his personality. For all we know, he could be the second coming of Daemon Blackfyre, who was as much a Targaryen as anyone else (being sired by Aegon IV and Daena Targaryen; a true Targaryen bloodwise).

The only thing that worried me was him freezing up on the boat vs the grey guy aggressor. I hope he is not a coward, which I don't believe he is judging by him wanting to lead the attack of Storm's End. He probably just needs to get accustomed to fighting foes vs training (like Robb Stark).

Oh, and he will sit the Iron Throne. The crowds will cheer the return of the Dragon, and banners of cloth Dragons will litter King's Landing. I just realistically don't think it will be for very long, as he will dance with Daenerys, who I believe will win.

I just believe there is a huge difference between thinking "my family was slaughtered" and living it. Just as I would argue Dany's losses aren't the slaughter of the Targaryen dynasty, but rather her experiences as an exile "begging" from one free city to the next, her loss of husband and unborn child, and witnessing the slaughter of the slaves on the way to Mereen. Until Aegon experiences first hand the costs of participating in the game of thrones, I refuse to acknowledge him as a legitimate player =P

[Prince of Dragonstone]

For me, Aegon's gratest virtue, and I think this is far better than anything you mentioned, is the fact he saved Tyrion's life. He pleaded Jon to save him, which says a lot about him. This is where Aegon shows ability to move on, something dany was necver capable of.

I agree that this is (F)Aegon's best moment to date, but why oh why did you have to bring Dany into it? She isn't capable of moving on? She took Hizdahr, an elite member of the slaver society that she hated and scorned, as her husband to quell the violence in her city. She fostered the young children of the slaver elite and instead of treating them harshly she treated them as her own little ones. She has proven time and again that she has a kind and benevolent heart.

[Lord Elrosir]

Until Aegon experiences first hand the costs of participating in the game of thrones, I refuse to acknowledge him as a legitimate player =P

I merely stated that it was not a fair comparison. Obviously its not the same as physically losing someone.

I don't want a player in the game of thrones. I want Aegon the motherfucking Conqueror, who takes what is his via Fire and Blood (sans the Fire since Aegon has no Dragon!). Enough of this pussy footing around with the likes of Varys and Littlefinger - a sword through the belly will do the trick to the non-believers.

[The Dovakhiin]

Aegon will take the throne. The Reach is beset by the ironborn, the north is in tatters, the Westerlands are under the control of an imprisoned Cersei Lannisters, the crownlands are preoccupied. Dorne will side with him and I believe that the majority of the riverlands will too. That leaves the vale as the stormlands are currently torn between Stannis, Tommen and Aegon.

For the sake of an interesting story I hope he makes it to kings landing with growing support. The dragon has returned at last, no bullshit about Sharqas gro Stupid.

All this talk about gim coming late to the story baffles me. Would you you prefer a sequel to 50 shades of Daario? Maybe GRRM is gonna pull a Henry Tudor on us. Bottom line is it makes the story interesting and raises the tempo once again. I think we gonna get another Storm of Swords style book. Why would that be bad?

Go Aegon!

[The Dovakhiin]

I agree that this is (F)Aegon's best moment to date, but why oh why did you have to bring Dany into it? She isn't capable of moving on? She took Hizdahr, an elite member of the slaver society that she hated and scorned, as her husband to quell the violence in her city. She fostered the young children of the slaver elite and instead of treating them harshly she treated them as her own little ones. She has proven time and again that she has a kind and benevolent heart.

She has proven time and time again that she doesn't know what she is doing.

[Riptide]

Just a nitpick, I'm near sure that in aSoS, we learn that Stannis has 300 men in Storm's End.

On topic:

great post OP. I agree completely (though you didn't mention his best feat; saving Tyrion's life.) Though Aegon has an anger management problem and a strong sense of entitlement, from what we know so far he seems significantly more good than bad.

[Breaking Stannis]

Yeah i like him now but the moment he shouts "I AM THE DRAGON!" or "BLOOD AND FIRE!" for stupid reasons i am hopping of the Aegon train.

[Kaerys Snow]

That is interesting: I did not put saving Tyrion on the list, but maybe I should have since people love the imp so much... It was a good deed, for sure. I wonder what his reasons were. Maybe he really did it because he is a good hearted man.

About Aegon not having suffered enough: Good point, I am sure this will happen soon though. Very soon, I am afraid. I do not think Aegon will enjoy much happiness.

Aegon is a test tube king. Varys created the PERFECT king. In theory, Aegon is everything Westeros needs: he appeals to the common folk, he is great in combat(supposedly), the highborns would love him......BUT he's TOO ideal. You can throw all the praise at him but I don't think he will sit the Iron Throne. I don't think he's capable of being king. And I don't think he woul make a great king. He's a noob. All the books and all that studying in the Free Cities doesn't compare to actually being raised in Westeros and growing up with Westerosi.

He grew up with Westerosi, but to be honest: the last thing Westeros needs now is a Westerosi king. They all failed.

A fresh, outside perspective may encourage thinking outside the box.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

She has proven time and time again that she doesn't know what she is doing.

For someone who doesn't know what she's doing, she sure has accomplished a lot. Remember that she is a 16 year old girl. Think about the 16 year old girls you have known in your life. What did they accomplish by the time they were 16???

[Lord Elrosir]

Having Dragons makes it easier to accomplish shit. Almost everything she has done has come with direct help from them.

Without the dragons she would not have formed a Khalasar. All of her current bloodriders would have left her, and she would have ended up at Vaes Dothrak with the Dosh Khaleen.

Without the dragons she would not have been welcomed into Qarth. She would not have been able to heal and strengthen the members of her Khalasar if she did not have dragons, as they were the reason that Xaro housed them. The novelty of the dragons also gave her some wealth via the form of gifts

Without the dragons, she wouldn't have the Unsullied infantry.

Without the dragons, she has a shit storm on her plate in the awful that is her ruling of Meereen. Without the dragons, Euron would not have sent the Iron Fleet to Meereen, which is probably the only reason why Meereen will not be sacked and put to the sword.

[mrunderhill]

Aegon, fake or not, did a very good job. GRRM has not revealed much about him, yet his actions so far were actually most promising:

1_Chosing the Best Plan

Sailing west was the only sane thing the boy could have done. Tyrion may not have had his best intentions in advising to land in Westeros, but there is no alternative. Dany would not have just married him and accepted his better claim, stepping down. She has proven to be a true dragon, for better or for worse, Aegon however is just a boy with a claim. Who really believes Aegon would have fared better in Mereen than in Westeros? His bold landing was well timed and when successful he can meet Dany with his head held high. It may not help much but it is certainly better than coming to her a beggar with a Blackfyre-loyalist army (especially now that Barristan his at her side).

2_Gaining the Loyalty of the Golden Company

The highest officers of the GC know about Aegon, but most of the war council was informed only a short time before Aegon arrived. Despite being just a boy and contrary to the best efforts of the GC commander, Aegon persuaded the GC leadership to execute his more than dangerous plan. Attacking Westeros with 10.000 men and a little bit hope? Aegon walked the fine line between boldness and rashness, between balls and idiocy. He chose the right path.

3_ Appointing a Hedge Knight to the Kingsguard

Contrary to the opinion of his mentor and father-figure JonCon, Aegon chose to elevate Rolly Duckfield, a mere hedge knight fathered by a smith, to a member of his Kingsguard. This reminds one of his namesake Aegon V (Egg), who chose a poor hedge knight named Duncan the Tall to teach him and later on to act as Lord Commander of his Kingsguard. Aegon VI argued wisely: loyalty is more important than nobility for a knight of the Kingsguard. Also there are still six more slots to fill, enough for any noble family who wants its son to join.

4_Attack on Storm’s End

Again, he is bold but correct in insisting on the leadership of the assault. A king must ride at the front of his men at least once a while to inspire them and to show them for what kind of man they risk their lives for. No one would respect a boy sitting comfortably in the back while his men die fighting. Aegon has not yet proven worthy of military leadership as he could not do any military feats. He must lead the attack.

5_Arguments against Aegon

Mostly, the bad reputation of Aegon stems from vastly exaggerated incidents: he flips over a table after being bullied by Tyrion for example. This is discussed in the thread: "Are people too harsh on Aegon?" in detail.

1. This was far from the best plan, because we don't know the situation when he arrived. If he had tried this whilst Tywin was in charge then an army 5 times the size of his lead by Tarly would descend and crush him. Doran is notoriously slow to commit to wars he cannot win and the majorit of the Golden Company might be wiped out before they even got to Storm's End.

2. The Golden Company were paid for by Illyrio, but more likely the leaders know he is a Blackfyre. The Golden Company have sworn they would be an heir of Daemon Blackfyre on the Iron Throne. Some contracts are written in blood as they say. However, he deserves credit for appearing to gain their respect.

3. Not a bad idea and it's good to reward loyal service, as long as he keeps the other places left for people, who will bring honour to his cause. Shows he rewards men for their ability and not their name, though Duckfield does not seem to be the greatest swordsman.

4. He deserves a lot of credit here, but it was very bloody and he must have suffered quite a few losses. However, Storm's End has never falled before and people did not think he could do it. It shows he is brave and capable even if a bit rash.

5. I agree people are too harsh on him. He seems a bit rash, but he is young. I think people judge his entrance into the story rather than his character, which is not fair. He needs to calm down his temper and think more clearly before he makes his next move.

[Lord Elrosir]

Well, to be fair to the anti-Aegon factions, we don't know the method of how they took Storm's End yet. It may have been through deception.

Either way, I still think Aegon is a great candidate. I think most of the hate stems from his late arrival to the story, his lil' temper tantrum after realizing that Tyrion was being a douchebag, and a general dislike of Targaryens/Blackfyres by some readers.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Great post OP, and I do agree with you. I think he is showing a lot of promise, but like everything else, time will tell.

Quick sidenote to the poster trashing Dany because her power is all due to her dragons.....she has 3 dragons. So.....I think we're done with that conversation. Oh - Tywin Lannister couldnt have accomplished anything if he had no gold or inheirited power? He did, so he was powerful. Dany was the ONLY person who could have awoken those dragons, they are HERS. If anything, Id compare her to Robert Baratheon - sure he inheirited most of his power and influence, but it was really on his own skills in battle that he accomplished things. Dany inheirits almost no power from her family, but on her own she becomes Mother of Dragons.

Aegon has an interestng future, and there will be several outside relationships that will be crucial to his eventual development. How much does he know of Illyrio and Varys? Has he ever even met them? What will he reaction to be to them if they attempt to wield influence on his behalf? So far, he has shown the ability to think on his own, which is to say, he has weighed the plans laid out for him by JonCon and Tyrion, and chosen. He is capable enough to stand up for himself, and confident enough to actually lead men. It seems he is in roughly the same place as Dany currently, and comparable to Robb when first named KITN. Now that he is starting a war, we will see very quickly what kind of actual leader he is.

[The Dovakhiin]

For someone who doesn't know what she's doing, she sure has accomplished a lot. Remember that she is a 16 year old girl. Think about the 16 year old girls you have known in your life. What did they accomplish by the time they were 16???

Daenerys Targaryen is a war criminal. How many 16 year old girls do I know that commit genocide, plan invasions of foreign lands, execute people without trial, and carry around WMDs? None.

As much as she wants to help she has started something she cannot hope to finish. And most of her accomplishments come from the people of Essos being brain dead.

[Lala]

Great post OP, and I do agree with you. I think he is showing a lot of promise, but like everything else, time will tell.

Quick sidenote to the poster trashing Dany because her power is all due to her dragons.....she has 3 dragons. So.....I think we're done with that conversation. Oh - Tywin Lannister couldnt have accomplished anything if he had no gold or inheirited power? He did, so he was powerful. Dany was the ONLY person who could have awoken those dragons, they are HERS. If anything, Id compare her to Robert Baratheon - sure he inheirited most of his power and influence, but it was really on his own skills in battle that he accomplished things. Dany inheirits almost no power from her family, but on her own she becomes Mother of Dragons.

Aegon has an interestng future, and there will be several outside relationships that will be crucial to his eventual development. How much does he know of Illyrio and Varys? Has he ever even met them? What will he reaction to be to them if they attempt to wield influence on his behalf? So far, he has shown the ability to think on his own, which is to say, he has weighed the plans laid out for him by JonCon and Tyrion, and chosen. He is capable enough to stand up for himself, and confident enough to actually lead men. It seems he is in roughly the same place as Dany currently, and comparable to Robb when first named KITN. Now that he is starting a war, we will see very quickly what kind of actual leader he is.

Oh the comparison to Robb when he was first named KiTN is a good one, I hadn't made that leap of logic. This makes me slightly more confident in Aegon than I did before (though I still believe that he is the "mummer's dragon" Dany is warned again by Quaithe) I wouldn't say there is very much similarity between Aegon and Dany at this point in the story though.

Whether you like, dislike, or feel ambivalent towards Dany, you can't deny that she has gone through a significant transformation as a character - from feeling "fearless for the first time in her life" on her silver and dreading "waking the dragon" to turning into the warrior queen conquering cities and freeing slaves. Aegon has remained relatively static - he has grown over the course of ADwD, but he still remains poised at the brink of a journey, whereas Dany is already in the middle of one.

More importantly, Dany has seen much more of cruelty, violence, and loss than Aegon has, and has consequently needed to question her own values and judgments (based on these values). There is very little to indicate that Aegon's childhood has been an exceptionally difficult one - by all accounts, he has had a foster father to care for him, a half-maester to instruct him, a septa to guide him - more importantly, whether he has gone hungry or not, he has had a relatively consistent environment with supportive adult figures caring for him. Dany's childhood as the Beggar King's sister (post-house-with-the-red-door) aside, she has already buried a brother, a husband, and a son in payment to the game of thrones, she has seen cities burn, and met men who would woo or murder her for her dragons and king's blood.

Consequently, I would argue that Aegon and Dany are in very different places in their journey, and are two very divergent characters atm. But, the similarity to Robb as KiTN is definitely there.

This is also essentially why I am able to take Dany seriously, despite her struggles in Slavers' Bay during ADwD, but have trouble seeing Aegon as a serious contender for the throne at this point in time - what does Aegon know of treachery and betrayal? Very little, at this point in the progression of his character. So, what does Aegon know of the game of thrones? Very little, at this point. Until he learns the true nature of the game of thrones (i.e. people will lie to you while seeming to serve your best interests, like Tyrion did during their cyvasse game), Aegon cannot effectively play the game, because he does not know the rules.