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Is Arya going to die?


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#1 Stark Jon

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

Hey guys this is my first topic i hope i do this properly.I know this has been discussed before but too little people focus on the part i want to share.
This is the dream Jon is telling to Sam:
''Jon tells Sam of a recurring dream he has of Winterfell. He dreams he is walking in a long, empty hall in the castle, his voice echoing around him and no one is answering. He is looking for someone, but he isn't sure who, sometimes it is his father, sometimes Robb, or Arya, or even Benjen. But he never finds anyone, the castle is always empty. Even the ravens are gone, and the stables are full of bones. It scares him, and he runs around looking for someone. Then he finds himself in front of the door to the crypts, and he knows he has to go down there, but he doesn't want to. He's afraid of what is waiting for him. Not the old Kings of Winter, but something else. He screams that he is not a Stark, that it isn't his place, but it is no good and he feels he has to go down, so he starts, with no torch to light his way. It gets darker and darker, until he wants to scream, and then he wakes up.''
People usually focus on the crypts part but there are no or little comments about the first part of the dream,and the crypts part i think its too vague.Now let's see what we have:
-Jon sees winterfell empty and no one is there to answer him
-then Jon starts seeking his family but no one answers....and that made me thinking. He only calls for his Father, Robb, Benjen and Arya
suppose this is a prophetic dream, we know for fact that winterfell now is ruined,refered as empty in his dream, Ned and Robb are dead so there are not answering him,and also only searches for Benjen and Arya.Benjen's fate is yet unknown but either he is dead or not he future seems dark
The absense of seasrching for Bran and Rikkon in his dream, even Sansa's as a last resort hit me with the realization that he only sees the Starks that end up dead.So i believe that Arya is going to die,and i mean die not sacrificied or anything.What's your opinion?

#2 mighty potato

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:01 AM

first thing , welcome to the forums i hope you enjoy your time here /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

and on the topic, that's a fresh look at it and i like it

but the text says someone , some times which implies that sometime it's some one else IMO

but if we choose to take it strictly like this, then yes,but then again none of jon's dreams have proved to be of prophetic nature...... yet

but all'n all i like it and think it definitely means something (and this might even strengthen the Benjin is coldhands theory)

#3 joluoto

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:01 AM

I think Arya will survive Winds but die in Hope, because by that time Arya's function in the story will probably be pretty much over (i.e. she has killed the character she'll be sent to kill).

#4 Mad Monkey

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:03 AM

Welcome!

I was one of the people who overlooked the first part of that dream. You raise an interesting point about the names that Jon explicitly refers to.

At first I thought that Jon was focusing on the Starks that he was closest to; he spends a lot of time with Robb because they are of an age, Ned is his father, Benjen was his idol (he joins the NW to go after him), and he has a special bond with Arya that he doesn't seem to have with Sansa, Bran, or Rickon.

But you're right, it could be a foreshadowing of Arya's doom -- though I certainly hope not!

Arya is kind of in an unhealthy situation right now though.

Edited by Mad Monkey, 14 July 2013 - 08:03 AM.


#5 Stark Jon

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

Welcome!

I was one of the people who overlooked the first part of that dream. You raise an interesting point about the names that Jon explicitly refers to.

At first I thought that Jon was focusing on the Starks that he was closest to; he spends a lot of time with Robb because they are of an age, Ned is his father, Benjen was his idol (he joins the NW to go after him), and he has a special bond with Arya that he doesn't seem to have with Sansa, Bran, or Rickon.

But you're right, it could be a foreshadowing of Arya's doom -- though I certainly hope not!

Arya is kind of in an unhealthy situation right now though.

well i agree with you about the bond he shares about these specific Starks but Bran also is on his mind at the time,since he woke up and he worries about him a lot(he even asks Tyrion to help him,and thats the only thing he asks of him) so not searching for his recently recovered little brother is the main reason why i lean to this theory

#6 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:20 AM

Valar Morghulis

#7 Hound Dog

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:23 AM

Really interesting look at things (Jon only seeing people who die). I never considered that at all. And yes, Jon does have Bran on his mind, so you cannot simply dismiss this as Jon only being concerned for those Starks he has a special bond with.

I don't think Arya's going to die. I also don't think she'll ever reemerge as Arya... when all is said and done, she'll have her own way of things. I think she's become so embittered by everything she has seen that she'll never want to be a part of that world again. Jon's dead, too, isn't he? /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Were only Sansa and Rickon the surviving and known Starks come the end of all of this, I can't see Arya rushing from the shadows to declare her existence. I know she kept Needle, and that is significant, but I think if she were ever to learn of Jon's death, that would kill her inside. Maybe she'll kill herself with Needle, and that's how she dies. I don't see her being killed.

#8 Ser Luke.

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

Welcome!

Yeah, it's certainly possible she'll die. That would be quite a way to end her story.

#9 Flaglore

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

Perhaps Arya will figuratively die when she truly become "no-one". Maybe I'm just clutching at straws here as I don't want Arya to die!

Also welcome!

#10 joluoto

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Perhaps Arya will figuratively die when she truly become "no-one". Maybe I'm just clutching at straws here as I don't want Arya to die!

Also welcome!

I think Arya Stark is pretty much dead already. When I talk about when Arya will die, or what she will do I talk about the girl with many faces.

#11 Mad Monkey

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Perhaps Arya will figuratively die when she truly become "no-one". Maybe I'm just clutching at straws here as I don't want Arya to die!

Also welcome!


What if there's a scene where Arya runs into Jon, or Sansa, or Bran, or Rickon by coincidence while in the disguise of someone else, and they ask her, "who are you?" and she says, "no one," before vanishing into a crowd, and that's the last time they ever see her?

#12 grand old duke of stark

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:57 AM

Admittedly, it does not look good for Arya; there are other ambiguous but ominous foreshadowings. But even as she is soaking up the wisdom and ways of the East, she keeps Needle and clearly remembers her father's line about the pack. She knows she's still in the pack; she dreams of/wargs Nymeria. Surely, GRRM put her in Essos for a reason. I'm convinced she will return to Westeros, probably be reunited with some of the Wolves, and with her training and bravery fulfill her part in avenging the Starks. Hopefully, she'll survive and help restore the North.

And there's always GRRM's wife's influence--she asked him not to kill Arya. Maybe the slightly reduced edginess of the TV version will influence D&D and him to let Arya live. And, frankly, it is damned unfair to submit a young child to all she has experienced just to kill her off. Neither life nor GRRM is fair, but one can hope.

#13 mrunderhill

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:04 AM

Admittedly, it does not look good for Arya; there are other ambiguous but ominous foreshadowings. But even as she is soaking up the wisdom and ways of the East, she keeps Needle and clearly remembers her father's line about the pack. She knows she's still in the pack; she dreams of/wargs Nymeria. Surely, GRRM put her in Essos for a reason. I'm convinced she will return to Westeros, probably be reunited with some of the Wolves, and with her training and bravery fulfill her part in avenging the Starks. Hopefully, she'll survive and help restore the North.

And there's always GRRM's wife's influence--she asked him not to kill Arya. Maybe the slightly reduced edginess of the TV version will influence D&D and him to let Arya live. And, frankly, it is damned unfair to submit a young child to all she has experienced just to kill her off. Neither life nor GRRM is fair, but one can hope.

I agree it's not looking good for Arya. There was the dream by Jon as mentioned in the original post, Jon's words and then when she wished death on herself (ie wishing the princess died).

I do find it strange that Arya gets a pass for her many crimes, but Joffrey who is not much older is viewed as the devil incarnate.

Edited by mrunderhill, 14 July 2013 - 11:04 AM.


#14 Roadside Rose

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

That's an interesting way of looking at that. I never believed it foreshadowed Arya's death, when I read it. But it is a rather strange dream. Jon was close to Arya, Robb...and Eddard is his father. Why he dreamt of Benjen, I have no idea.
Welcome to the forums!

#15 joluoto

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

That's an interesting way of looking at that. I never believed it foreshadowed Arya's death, when I read it. But it is a rather strange dream. Jon was close to Arya, Robb...and Eddard is his father. Why he dreamt of Benjen, I have no idea.
Welcome to the forums!

He always looked up to Benjen. The weird thing is that he never thought of Bran in the dream whom he also was close to.

#16 Blueberry Stark

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:27 AM

If the dream is prophetic, perhaps it is indicative of the people who are "lost" to Jon (as in he may never see them again whether they are alive or dead). Or, perhaps the dream just refers to people Jon fears that he'll lose. I don't recall when this dream occurred in the story
though. Is it right after Bran's fall?

#17 TheMysteriousOne

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:46 AM

I don't want Arya to die, but she will. Death is such an important part of Arya and her storyline that I don't find it likely she'll survive the series.

#18 Mr Hodor

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

I don't want Arya to die, but she will. Death is such an important part of Arya and her storyline that I don't find it likely she'll survive the series.

sad, but i feel the same.

#19 Corvinus

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

I always thought that what foreshadows Arya's death is when he she yells at that Frey squire "I hope your stupid princess dies" not knowing she was talking about herself. And since people that Arya hopes they die, eventually do die, well it's only a matter of time.

#20 Gronzag

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:53 AM

I don't want her do die in any way, real or figurative