How Houses like Gardener and Durrendon survived the Andal invasions

[joluoto]

The Andal invasions is a mysterious event in Westeros history that lasted centuries and ended with the Andals dominating everything south of the neck. Still some first men houses survived. Houses like Dayne, Royce, Bracken and Hightower probably survived through converting to the Faith of the Seven and accept the Andals as Overlords. House Blackwood is an interesting case since they still follow the Old Gods. However House Durrendon and Gardener stand out. They were royal houses before the Andals came and kept being Royal Houses after the Andals had established dominance. But the new kingdoms were definitely Andal. Thus somehow House Gardener and Durrendon had transformed from being First Men Houses to being Andal Houses.

I think we need to examine another House to understand what happened. See case Lannister. House Lannister is definitely a Andal House, but they are descendants of the former kings of the Rock on the female side (the descendants of Lann the clever). So when the Andals conquered the Rock, the Andal leader probably married a Princess of the former royal House, and thus House Lannister was born. Lann the Clever as the ancestor of the House is still visible in the House name.

So what happened in the Stormlands and the Reach was probably something similar. The Andals married princesses from the Houses Gardener and Durrendon and took the names of these Houses as their own.

[CrowsBeforeHoes]

Definitely some intermarriage there. But those are Houses have formidable fortifications (Storm's End has never been taken, who knows about Highgarden) and also had significant influence over other Houses. With that kind of manpower they might've been able to fight the Andals into a truce. It's hard to say because we really don't know much about the Andal invasion besides that it started in the Vale and that they were fervent towards the Seven (enough to carve stars on themselves). It also depends on how centralized the Andal leadership was. It seems more a migration than invasion where each area was conquered over time, with some areas more difficult than others.

[N/A]

it's mentioned somewhere (an interview maybe ?) that the andals and first men intermarried to make peace and then it became common

[Starfell]

I'm not sure, I think that the Kingdoms were probably not united at that time. Clearly the migration was large enough that it fundamentally changed the cultural character of Southern Westeros. Not only that, but it affected the nobles at the highest levels as you've pointed out. To me this implies that the Houses who went on to become Storm Kings and Kings of the Reach probably weren't undisputed rulers of their regions at the time (even the Starks weren't until about 700 years before Aegon's Landing according to a remark Theon makes in ACoK).

I say this because it's a bit odd for the rulers to assimilate so flawlessly into the culture of their subjects, especially if there was a large residual population of First Men with their own culture, and stranger still for them to remain rulers when their lands have been swamped by a migration large enough to effectively render the indigenous population a minority. So I think that there was probably a period before the regions became Kingdoms where there were Andal and First Men petty kingdoms alongside one another and the First Men were gradually assimilated into the Andal society around them.

But this is pure speculation of course. We don't know which customs are FM and which are Andal except where the Faith and related things like knighthood are concerned. It might be that the rulers kept a lot of their FM cultural heritage and that eventually blended with the Andal culture of their subjects until the two were fully merged, with a basically Andal culture acquiring a lot of FM bits and pieces in the same way that English culture was influenced by the Normans

[Winterz]

Diplomacy. Just like how Dorne survived integration into the Seven Kingdoms. All of those houses you mentioned were powerful so I imagine that they couldn't conquer them by force so diplomacy was the way.

[Groat]

I'm not sure, I think that the Kingdoms were probably not united at that time. Clearly the migration was large enough that it fundamentally changed the cultural character of Southern Westeros. Not only that, but it affected the nobles at the highest levels as you've pointed out. To me this implies that the Houses who went on to become Storm Kings and Kings of the Reach probably weren't undisputed rulers of their regions at the time (even the Starks weren't until about 700 years before Aegon's Landing according to a remark Theon makes in ACoK).

I believe Westeros was referred to as the "100 kingdoms of the First Men" before the Andal invasion.

[asimetrikal]

i know this is late, but i have to make a few remarks regarding the original post.

1. the andal invasion is not very mysterious, at least not compared to many other things in the history of the world of the novels. many people are misinformed about it, but the history can be gleaned broadly from the text, and the supplementary books provide a lot more information.

1.2 a few things many are mistaken about regarding the andal invasion:

- there is no way, none, that the invasion was 6000 years ago. a maester wrote a book called 'true history' that says it happened 4000 years ago, but in honesty it probably began a little less than 2000 years ago. there are good reasons in-universe and through considered reasoning to believe the low number. the first is that even in regions other than the north and the iron islands, there is still a considerable sense of identity vis-a-vis andal and the first men. in dorne they have four recognized racial groups, which a dornishman falls into depending on how not-andal or not-first men he is. basically if the invasion happened anymore than about 2000 years ago, there would have been so much interbreeding there would no longer a real sense of first men vs. andals, and even the north would have too much admixture to really call themselves one way or another. further the faith of the seven is based on the catholic/christian church. jesus died about two thousand years ago, so it's safe to assume this is another religious parallel and say that the andal invasion was about two thousand years ago.

1.3 the invasion did not begin as a religious conquest. the andals began worshipping the seven at least several hundred years before the invasion began. the reason the andals fled essos, and did so in waves occurring over generations, is because the valyrian freehold was expanding, continually encroaching on andal land. eventually they had to completely give up that kingdom. the andal invasion was NOT a crusade, it was the same story that went on to displace the rhoynar peoples who settled in dorne a thousand years later.

1.4 with the exception of the valyrians, the andals are the most powerful, constructive, progressive (the valyrians weren't this!), capable, technologically accomplished and promising culture on the planet. if the world of the universes ever adopts a more rational, forward thinking, enlightened perspective it will be the andals who lead the way into that future.

to answer your question, you nailed it with your guess. the kings of the stormlands made deals with andals as periodically andal warlords would pillage their lands but would often fail taking main castles and they never took storm's end. for their part, the first men kings were expected to take andal noblewomen for wives and within a couple of generations they had all converted to the faith willingly. thus, the king of storm's end at the time of aegon's conquest still carried a first men name (durrandon, VERY first men-ish) but actually had a good bit of andal blood, if not a majority. in fact, the fierce blue eyes some male members of the baratheon line (robert, gendry) is most likely an andal physical marker, not one of the first men or valyrians.

[Daendrew]

They are magic kings. Stromgod blood and Garden of Ednos blood.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Starfell, we are told in the world book that the Andals arrived just after the Starks had subdued the Boltons, so the North was united when it fought the Andals.

[Ramsay Gimp]

TWOIAF really seemed to downplay the Andal impact. Every important house outside of the Vale is supposedly a First Men house, which really takes away from the aura of the Starks/Northerners

[Chinoiserie]

There was an aura around the Northeners?

[EastTymor]

There was an aura around the Northeners?

The Northern Lights, they call it.

[Ser Lepus]

The World Book says that, after the Andals had conquered the Vale and were advancing through the Riverlands, the Gardeners called some Andal lords, offering them lands and the hands of maidens from the nobility of the First Men in marriage, and that way they attracted many strong vassals. They also adopted the Faith, so the Andals couldn't use religion as a way to galvanize their armies.

I can't remember what the Durrendon did, but I guess it was something similar.

[Alester Florent]

TWOIAF really seemed to downplay the Andal impact. Every important house outside of the Vale is supposedly a First Men house, which really takes away from the aura of the Starks/Northerners

That was certainly a weakness in the book, I thought. I felt at times as if the book suffered from a lack of ambition or imagination, which makes me wonder if the principal writer on most of the Westeros stuff was not GRRM but one of his co-writers, who didn't want to depart too far from what was already known. Thus a lot of the history seemed rather procedural, and rather than having great houses rising and falling over the period of thousands of years, for the most part it's the same families everywhere that have been there since time immemorial.

[Ramsay Gimp]

There was an aura around the Northeners?

"The blood of the first men still flowed in House Stark"

Well, no shit. It flows in everyone apparently

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

"The blood of the first men still flowed in House Stark"

Well, no shit. It flows in everyone apparently

Well, after thousands of years, everyone in Westeros is bound to have First Men and Andal blood.

The Andal invasion was pretty underwhelming. They came, stalemated the First Men(except for the Vale), and they all just decided to get along after generations of warfare. Most of the powerful houses have First Men roots, so aside from culture and blood, Andal impact was minimal when it came to nobility.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Well, after thousands of years, everyone in Westeros is bound to have First Men and Andal blood.

The Andal invasion was pretty underwhelming. They came, stalemated the First Men(except for the Vale), and they all just decided to get along after generations of warfare. Most of the powerful houses have First Men roots, so aside from culture and blood, Andal impact was minimal when it came to nobility.

It seems like the First Men could have just converted to the Seven and the backstory wouldn't be changed much. The main plot wouldn't be changed at all

[Mithras]

Just reread the Vikings raid in Europe which led to the foundation of Normandy. It is basically the same.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Very similar to the Angle, Saxon, and Norman invasions of England. In the end the culture changes but the people are the same. Yes the Plantagenet and the Angevin were French/Germanic houses, but eventually the British crown wound up in the hands of the Tudors (Welch) and the Stuarts (Scottish) houses. During the Angle and Saxon periods there were similar alliances and mairrages between British Kings and Germanic Kings and Warlords. If Aegon's invasion is the coming of the Normans, then the Andal invasion compares to the Anglo-Saxon invasions of Britain. The people of Britain never really changed, but their culture and their kings changed.

[Nyrhex]

I can't remember what the Durrendon did, but I guess it was something similar.

Go over the list of Storm Kings.

Eric VII Durrandon "the Unready" was too busy with his other wars to pay attention to the Andals.

His grandson, Qarlton II "the Conqueror", was the first Storm King to face the Andal in battle.

Qarlton III, his successor, went on to fight the Andals for his entire reign.

Monfryd V, his son, defeated the "Holy Brotherhood" at the Battle of Bronzegate, at the cost of his own life.

Baldric I played the Andal factions against each other.

Durran XXI established the "Wierwood Alliance" with the Children of the Forest agaisnt the Andals.

Cleoden I joined forces with 3 Dornish kings against the Andals.

Maldon IV took an Andal maiden to wife.

His son, Durran XXIV "Half-blood" continued the tradition of intermarriage with the Andals.

Ormund III had converted from the Old Gods to the Faith of the Seven.

Well over 10 generations of Durrandons had waged war with the Andals, had made pacts with old enemies such as the Children and the Dornish against them, had used diplomacy and intrigue against the Andals, and at last had converted to the Andal Faith after enough generations of intermarriages had made the defferences relatively minor. The change from one faith to the other had brought an end to the saga of war between the First Men and the invaders.

Despite the common perception, the Andals did not manage the same, complete, victory as the First Men. They only took the Vale, where they had originally landed, and where population was relartively little, and with the other kingdoms they eventually arrived to peace through generations of war, peace and intermarriage.

"The blood of the first men still flowed in House Stark"

Well, no shit. It flows in everyone apparently

This "Northern Master Race" shit has been bothering me since the start. Everyone has it. The only house that can trace itself to a purely Andal line is Arryn, and even they had married into First Men houses countless times. Hell, the only reason there is no Weirwood at the Godswood at the Eyrie is because non could take root at the stoney soil there. But they tried.