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The idiot named Syrio Forel


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#1 GGK1986

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:44 AM

Why in Seven Hells did Syrio Forel not pick up a sword made of steel of one of the fallen knights, when he was facing the Kingsguard? They were falling around him like raindrops and it took a while before ser Meryn Trant decides he would have to finish the job.

Surely his pride wouldn't have been the reason?

Edited by GGK1986, 19 July 2013 - 01:45 AM.


#2 theguyfromtheVale

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:47 AM

When you're in a sword fight, you can't just turn your attention away from your opponent, that's a deadly mistake to make. Grabbing a sword would have meant focusing on that sword instead of Trant, and bending over to get the sword would have given Trant even better opportunities to kill Syrio. Really, trying to pick up a swor would have been one of the worst things to do in Syrio's position.

#3 mighty potato

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:48 AM

a lot of people might say "oh, it's not his style" or "he doesn't know how to use a long sword it's too heavy "

but i agree with you,he was an idiot

#4 mighty potato

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:49 AM

When you're in a sword fight, you can't just turn your attention away from your opponent, that's a deadly mistake to make. Grabbing a sword would have meant focusing on that sword instead of Trant, and bending over to get the sword would have given Trant even better opportunities to kill Syrio. Really, trying to pick up a swor would have been one of the worst things to do in Syrio's position.


well,all that fancy focus didn't save him in the end did it ?

#5 jenerationx

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:50 AM

Have we actually gotten confirmation that Syrio is dead (say it ain't so!)? Maybe he didn't need a fancy steel sword when he could beat all of them, Trant included, with a wooden one. /still hoping

#6 MidnightAurora

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:54 AM

Why in Seven Hells did Syrio Forel not pick up a sword made of steel of one of the fallen knights, when he was facing the Kingsguard? They were falling around him like raindrops and it took a while before ser Meryn Trant decides he would have to finish the job.

Surely his pride wouldn't have been the reason?


He was not an idiot.. He was giving Arya time to get away and run. It was he who refused to let Arya go with them and questioned why the Hand would send Lannister men for his daughter and not his own men. Arya realized that as well and Syrio told her to run and he fended off all the guards with a practice, but the sword was not pure wood though it had a metal or something inside that Arya saw and realized that why it hurt so much when she got hit. Syrio Forel was concentrating on the opponents and making sure Arya got away safe and probably gave his life to save hers. He was in the middle of a fight and if you lose sight of your opponent even to pick up a sword you are dead. Plus he killed what about 6 or so men before probably being killed himself. Syrio was selfless and I wished Eddard would have been able to bring him to Winterfell to not only continue Arya's training, but also train his men in a different style to go along with what Ser Rodrik taught them. It is only assumed Syrio is dead.. no confirmation has been made same with Benjen Stark.

Edited by MidnightAurora, 19 July 2013 - 01:54 AM.


#7 circularlogic

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

I'm in the camp of Syrio being alive. Ser Trant was a very weak knight, I believe Syrio will make an appearance in another book, we never see a body of Syrio, or any confirmation that he's actually dead. With GRRM, I wouldnt count out anything.

#8 GGK1986

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:00 AM

He was not an idiot.. He was giving Arya time to get away and run. It was he who refused to let Arya go with them and questioned why the Hand would send Lannister men for his daughter and not his own men. Arya realized that as well and Syrio told her to run and he fended off all the guards with a practice, but the sword was not pure wood though it had a metal or something inside that Arya saw and realized that why it hurt so much when she got hit. Syrio Forel was concentrating on the opponents and making sure Arya got away safe and probably gave his life to save hers. He was in the middle of a fight and if you lose sight of your opponent even to pick up a sword you are dead. Plus he killed what about 6 or so men before probably being killed himself. Syrio was selfless and I wished Eddard would have been able to bring him to Winterfell to not only continue Arya's training, but also train his men in a different style to go along with what Ser Rodrik taught them. It is only assumed Syrio is dead.. no confirmation has been made same with Benjen Stark.


Yes, that's all a very accurate recollection of what happened, along with your own view. But the question is; why didn't he just pick up a sword made out of steel. A man of his skills and speed would have done that in less than a second.

So the whole 'keep the eyes on the foe'-theory? I don't buy that either.

And this whole thread is not about whether he died or not. Even if he got away, he could have still picked up a regular sword.

Edited by GGK1986, 19 July 2013 - 02:01 AM.


#9 mighty potato

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:00 AM

one more time people, Syrio is dead ,dead,dead,DEAD

now i watch your hopes crash and burn /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />

Edited by mighty potato, 19 July 2013 - 02:01 AM.


#10 jenerationx

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:02 AM

one more time people, Syrio is dead ,dead,dead,DEAD

now i watch your hopes crash and burn /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />


/bawl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bawl:' />

#11 Minsc

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

I'm in the camp of Syrio being alive. Ser Trant was a very weak knight,


There is no indication that Trant is an incompetent fighter, only that he doesn't really care for his vows of protecting the innocent.

#12 The Dragon & The Wolf

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:23 AM

I agree & wasnt Ser Meryn hit or something, i dont recall, regardless Syrio had the training he could've done a duck & roll type of thing lol or maybe that type of sword would've thrown off his balance or something idk. But I do know he was very brave so seven blessings to him whether alive or dead, I think dead. Ser Meryn would not have let him go alive & Syrio would not have run or tried to escape not the bravoosi style for one & two he needed to give Arya as much time and space bet. her & her would be captors as possible.

Sidenote: Reminds me of Septa Mordane sacrificing herself for Sansa

#13 noobilly

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:34 AM

I think that kinda longsword is not the type of sword he is used to, he's more of a rapier guy right?

#14 corbon

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:53 AM

a lot of people might say "oh, it's not his style" or "he doesn't know how to use a long sword it's too heavy "

but i agree with you,he was an idiot


Its funny how often readers with only a peripheral understanding of a situation proclaim experienced and wise characters as idiots.
Some self-reflection would not go amiss.

#15 mighty potato

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:03 AM

Its funny how often readers with only a peripheral understanding of a situation proclaim experienced and wise characters as idiots.
Some self-reflection would not go amiss.


excuse me ?

now i'm not entitled to an opinion ?

#16 How to slay a Dragon

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:10 AM

I'm pretty sure in the fight he is bouncing that stick around ridiculously fast, something he couldn't do with a longsword, not that he can't fight with a longsword, I'm sure he can, but he was relying on his speed and agility in this fight. Also I think someone is onto something when they say about him not taking his eye off his foe, it is mentioned a couple of times that he does not take his eyes off the Lannister's at all.

#17 Errant Bard

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:24 AM

What makes you think he did not pick up a sword, really? Him being armed does not change the outcome necessarily. (Or only in his fanboys dreams.)

We had a similar fight actually shown to us in ADWD: Barristan does not even parry the blows his legendary, unarmoured, light, fastest and strongest fighter in the area directs at his armour with his weapon of choice, he only parries blows to the head because he did not don his helmet... but Trant did wear the helmet.

There's also Jorah's fight against bloodriders... being armed is good but it does not do everything.

#18 mighty potato

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:29 AM

What makes you think he did not pick up a sword, really? Him being armed does not change the outcome necessarily. (Or only in his fanboys dreams.)

We had a similar fight actually shown to us in ADWD: Barristan does not even parry the blows his legendary, unarmoured, light, fastest and strongest fighter in the area directs at his armour with his weapon of choice, he only parries blows to the head because he did not don his helmet... but Trant did wear the helmet.

There's also Jorah's fight against bloodriders... being armed is good but it does not do everything.


sure i know, and i think he would've died anyway but at least make him bleed

#19 Errant Bard

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:38 AM

sure i know, and i think he would've died anyway but at least make him bleed

Why, though? The point was to have the PoV character internalize the "look with your eyes" lesson, see it was doomed, and flee; it was not to show a nonsensical case of a sword managing to go through armour, only for Trant to become wolverine and heal immediately.

#20 Rahgh Neqaj

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:49 AM

He might have used the short time between defeating the Lannister Men and Ser Meryn Trent starting to engage him to pick up one of the swords but if I remember correctly, he still needed those seconds to see a somewhat stubborn Arya (who didn't run the first time she was told to run) out of the room. Also, I believe long swords are a bit of an disadvantage at close quarters.

There were two things that really astonished me. The first one is that Syrio was sword-less to begin with. Of course he might've put it away when he was practicing with Arya but a sword is not the kind of thing that a former first sword of Braavos would put out of reach, is it? The second is how Arya got out of the room. Sure she was running through the kitchens and stuff but to get to the kitchens she had to get out of the room first. From those that had entered the room, only Meryn Trant was still alive and he was busy with Syrio but were there no others waiting outside the room? GRRM didn't bother to describe the layout of the suite they were in, he didn't even bother to say that Arya dodged past Meryn Trent to get out of the room. Maybe he had to omitt it due to page counts but it seems unusually sloppy for something important. (Important from the viewpoint of fans of Syrio and/or Arya. After all, Syrio was designed to carry sympathies and he had to expect us to pour over that part for clues towards his possible survival.)