CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

[Sturn]

Through surveys? This is really not that hard at all, there's plenty of research that can be done without going through crime reports. You just have to send out a questionnaire to enough people asking them about their own personal experiences.

So do you think many gun owners/carriers are going to respond to a government survey asking them details of their gun use? It's also a heated issue that calls for false reporting on both sides of the argument.

[thecryptile]

If some random jackass calls me up, asks me if I have guns in my house and if I've ever used them defensively I'd deny owning any. I don't want to end up on some confiscation list or that damned Google app that targets gun-owners.

I'm not alone in that either. That kind of sentiment is why I feel that the official rates of gun ownership in the US are much lower than the actual rate.

[Shryke]

How can defensive firearm use be studied properly when many (if not most) defensive uses (where no injuries result) go unreported?

It's a problem. Always has been.

Shit, studies on gun stuff in the US in general run into major issues like this all the time. It's why it's difficult to get estimates of, say, how many people own guns cause people won't be truthful about it and the tools to track it other ways aren't available/legal.

At the cost of $10 million taxpayers' dollars? Way to go team CDC-Obama.

Was $10 million the cost of just this report?

Cause this report, as far as I can figure out, is essentially a starting point for a wider push in research. Before you start funding research, it's important to know what's been done and to determine the questions that need to be answered in order to properly allocate research funding. Is some of that $10 million going to later research?

[thecryptile]

It's why it's difficult to get estimates of, say, how many people own guns cause people won't be truthful about it and the tools to track it other ways aren't available/legal.

You can't be truthful about things like that, not when the gun-control crowd will use the info for confiscations. We see what happened in the UK, and what is happening in New York and California. Registration leads to confiscation.

[Shryke]

You can't be truthful about things like that, not when the gun-control crowd will use the info for confiscations. We see what happened in the UK, and what is happening in New York and California. Registration leads to confiscation.

Yes, this is exactly the kind of paranoia that makes it difficult. Good demonstration.

[Sci-2]

You can't be truthful about things like that, not when the gun-control crowd will use the info for confiscations. We see what happened in the UK, and what is happening in New York and California. Registration leads to confiscation.

Cryptile, could you post some links on the confiscations?

The one for CA is for illegally owned guns right? Though admittedly the illegality of ownership means people aren't going to report the weapons.

[thecryptile]

Cryptile, could you post some links on the confiscations?

Here are some links about the Lewis case in NY. His guns were illegally seized under their newest laws.

Jacobs appeared on WBEN radio in Buffalo on Thursday morning and explained the details of this administrative debacle. Mr. Jacobs also delivered some pointed comments about how the law was written so badly that mistakes like this were bound to happen. He closed with some fairly damning statements and also asked the state to consider scrapping the bill and re-writing it.

"When you write a piece of legislation in a vacuum, without having hearings, without talking to people about how it's going to implemented in the real world -- without jeopardizing people's rights, and putting an individual like this through a nightmarish experience, and infringe on their rights, you have to go back to the drawing board," he said. "And I encourage the legislative leadership here and mostly our governor to take a step back and say 'we didn't get it right' and let's change this."

http://news.yahoo.com/oops-york-state-police-admit-big-mistake-gun-142418295.html

The claim by the Erie County Clerk that New York State Police had simply provided "bad information" resulting in permit revocation and the confiscation of Amherst resident David Lewis' guns is not true, Bauerle insists. "I've had it confirmed; the New York State Police are lying about him not being the guy they wanted." Police weren't expecting Lewis to get a lawyer, Bauerle says, especially one who knows the Second Amendment. "They had the guy they wanted," Bauerle maintains, calling the official excuse "nonsense" and charging Gov. Cuomo "is a monomaniac on the subject of guns." What happened, he explains, is that the state has a special HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) unit to search private medical records without warrants, and that Lewis was simply the first person to be caught up in that net.

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=48669

Yes, this is exactly the kind of paranoia that makes it difficult. Good demonstration.

It's not paranoid when they really are out to get you.

Why Gun Owners Are Right to Fight Against Gun Control

The anti-gun crowd doesn't want "compromise." They want confiscation and control...

Understanding the rejection requires understanding gun owners' shared experiences. Compromise requires that both parties relinquish something. If your counterpart's position is "give me this now, and I'll take the rest later," there is no real compromise to be had. Over decades, that has been precisely the experience of American gun owners.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/07/18/why-second-amendment-supporters-are-righ

Common sense has prevailed. Criminal charges have been dropped against West Virginia teen Jared Marcum, who was suspended from his school and arrested when he refused to remove his National Rifle Association shirt. This case demonstrates the lengths to which anti-gun advocates will go to promote their agenda- not only attacking the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens, but also the First Amendment rights of those who support and value their Right to Keep and Bear arms. The National Rifle Association will continue our fight for our members and for all lawful gun owners in this country.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2013/6/common-sense-prevails-in-west-virginia.aspx

[Shryke]

It's not paranoid when they really are out to get you.

Except they aren't out to get you.

Your example is literally 1 guy.

[thecryptile]

Except they aren't out to get you.

But they are out to get me. Look at the pronouncements of gun control advocates like Bloomberg, Soros, Feinstein and Pelosi. They make no secret that confiscation is the ultimate goal. "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in." They want to disarm everyone but the police and the bodyguards of the wealthy elite.

Your example is literally 1 guy.

One guy who represents an entire community. He's the Trayvon Martin of gun-owners.

[thecryptile]

Been looking into acquiring a firearm for self/home defense.

Seems like in order to use a handgun effectively in a panic situation you really need to practice with it alot. A shotgun OTOH...

Here's another good home defense shotgun: The Stoeger Double Defense- available in both over/under and side-by-side configurations. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php

The double barrel is even more reliable than the pump action, and is also very easy to use. This one has accessory rails for attachments like flashlights, optics, and lasers.

[Shryke]

But they are out to get me. Look at the pronouncements of gun control advocates like Bloomberg, Soros, Feinstein and Pelosi. They make no secret that confiscation is the ultimate goal. "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in." They want to disarm everyone but the police and the bodyguards of the wealthy elite.

Do show this please.

One guy who represents an entire community. He's the Trayvon Martin of gun-owners.

Whom does he represent then? Where are these unreported gun confiscations of which this man is but the visible tip?

[thecryptile]

Do show this please.

Here's a few quotes:

Discussing why the 1994 act only prohibited the manufacture or import of assault weapons, instead of the possession and sale of them, Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Dianne_Feinstein#Gun_politics

“Cuomo indicated the state will likely force some kind of permit process on owners of semi-automatic ‘assault weapons.’ In addition to generating revenue and expanding the size and reach of government, the effort will allow the state to confiscate the weapons of citizens who do not comply.”

Cuomo added, “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option.

http://godfatherpolitics.com/8655/new-york-governor-gun-confiscation-is-an-option/

Bans and confiscations of commonly own semi-automatic fire-arms are a stated goal of the anti-gun clique.

Whom does he represent then? Where are these unreported gun confiscations of which this man is but the visible tip?

Come now, you know by definition unreported means there aren't going to be media reports.

Some Good News: Mayors are abandoning Bloomberg's MAIG.

According to Buzzfeed.com, MAIG's mayoral membership is down 50 from where it was in February. And while many of these are gone because "they either resigned or lost an election," several "others have specifically asked to be removed" from MAIG's roll.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/22/Mayors-Abandoning-Bloomberg-s-Gun-Control-Group

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Here's another good home defense shotgun: The Stoeger Double Defense- available in both over/under and side-by-side configurations. http://www.stoegerin...ble-defense.php

The double barrel is even more reliable than the pump action, and is also very easy to use. This one has accessory rails for attachments like flashlights, optics, and lasers.

That O/U is friggin sweet

[Commodore]

thanks for the info cryptile, what would recommend as far as learning how to use one (I certified on a pistol a decade ago in the AF but otherwise know next to nothing about guns)?

So do you think many gun owners/carriers are going to respond to a government survey asking them details of their gun use? It's also a heated issue that calls for false reporting on both sides of the argument.

I haven't had this experience, but I've heard many people are getting asked by their doctors if they own firearms and consider it an inappropriate invasion of privacy. Where is the requirement this question be asked coming from? Will it go into an ACA database?

[thecryptile]

thanks for the info cryptile, what would recommend as far as learning how to use one (I certified on a pistol a decade ago in the AF but otherwise know next to nothing about guns)?

For defensive shooting inside the home, you don't really need much training aside from basic gun safety to use your shotgun effectively. At close range it is just point and click. The spread of shot means that you don't really need to aim per se, just point the muzzle at what you want to hit.

You also want to be sure you have the right defensive ammunition. You want something that will end a threat, birdshot might not be enough to stop a determined aggressor. I like #4 shot 3 inch magnum (ask for a turkey load at the sporting goods counter) or 00 buck 2 3/4, for my home defense, but there are other opinions. You want a tight pattern and you want to try to minimize the risk of over penetration, as you might be shooting inside your own home, after all. There are also a number of good factory loaded specialty home defense shells, notably the PDX series from Winchester.

If you plan on hunting or shooting trap or skeet though, you need to practice. Shooting a shotgun is very different from shooting a rifle or a pistol.

[jarl the climber]

To be honest with you Commodore most intruders will get the hell out of there once they hear you close the barrel.

[Shryke]

Here's a few quotes: http://en.wikipedia....n-is-an-option/

Bans and confiscations of commonly own semi-automatic fire-arms are a stated goal of the anti-gun clique.

Oh, so when you said "Confiscation", you meant "Assault Weapons Ban". You know, something completely different.

Come now, you know by definition unreported means there aren't going to be media reports.

No, it just means they won't get antional attention. If there aren't even local reports, on what are you basing this supposed trend?

[karaddin]

Been looking into acquiring a firearm for self/home defense.

Seems like in order to use a handgun effectively in a panic situation you really need to practice with it alot. A shotgun OTOH...

Of course, if you are looking for defense outside the home, you can't walk around with a shotgun unless your name is Omar.

Am I misreading this, or are you changing your name to Omar? I'm so totally on board with that.

Nothing to add to the serious discussion.

[sologdin]

who's afraid of confiscations? i thought grrrrns were there for self defense. self defend already. seriously, the gun industry's unpaid shills are the most whiny romper room full of babies in the history of the world.

[thecryptile]

who's afraid of confiscations?

People who remember history, instead of revising it. Disarmed people are vulnerable to tyranny and genocide. We saw it in the Soviet Union, we saw it Nazi Germany, we are seeing it today in Tibet and Sinkiang.

i thought grrrrns were there for self defense. self defend already.

You better hope it doesn't come to that. Civil War II is not a good outcome for anyone, but unjustified mass confiscation will not be tolerated by Freedom loving people.

seriously, the gun industry's unpaid shills are the most whiny romper room full of babies in the history of the world.

Not quite as whiny as some liberals. Hey solo, are you an unpaid shill of Communism, or is some foreign intelligence agency financing your activities?