The Targ fire RESISTANCE debate...

[Ruby Chevrolet]

I think you're misreading this. Quentyn doesn't even notice that he's on fire at first, while he does notice (and feel) the "furnace wind." This implies that the two events (the "furnace wind" and fire breath) are separate and sequential. No, the author does not explicitly state that the wind was followed by the fire, but this is for reasons of style. He wants to hide from the reader that Quentyn has been burned until Quentyn realizes it himself. It's an evocative and chilling scene, but it'd be short-changed if the "furnace wind" was intended to be the fire all along.

I don't think I am misreading it. Quentyn's friends tell him to turn around. Then:

Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself. The green one is Rhaegal.

When he raised his whip, he saw that the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning.

So, as he was turning around, putting one arm across his face and using the other to lift the whip, the furnace wind started and he burst into flames.

Here is how I see it. There is no question that Daenerys was engulfed by a furnace wind. The question is whether that was hot breath or flaming hot breath. To answer this question, look at other examples where similar phrases were used.

My reading of the Quentyn chapter is valid. You could read it another way -- that is, you could say that Rhaegal blew hot "furnace wind" breath first, then Quentyn raised his arms, then Rhaegal transitioned from "furnace wind" to "fire." The problem with that reading is that it does not explain how Balerion's "furnace breath" was able to melt the Iron Throne. I just don't think the author would use such similar phrases to mean different things.

It did not burn her because it was not fire. If it was, then she wouldn't fear that Drogon was about to burn her just a few sentences later, as I pointed out in the R+L=J thread.

I see your point, but again I don't agree. This goes to the distinction between fire "resistance" and fire "immunity." I think Daenerys survived one short blast of Drogon's fire-breath. Daenerys knows this. She is afraid, however, that if Drogon is really determined to burn her, and he trains a sustained stream of fire on her, eventually she will start to burn.

I'm having a hard time imaging how her harms and legs end up in front of her (especially her arms; wouldn't she have placed them behind her or to her side in order to break her fall?), and an even harder time imagining how they're supposed to provide enough protection to her clothes that they manage to stay on her body. Especially when you consider that the fire isn't simply going to go in the direction that Drogon breathes it in, but will spread to other places on her body.

Two things. First, Daenerys says she took the "pitmaster's whip" and the "rags on her back" with her from Meereen, which suggests that when she flew off on Drogon she was wearing rags. But before she jumped into the pit she was well-dressed. I think the fire turned her clothes into rags. Second, when the flames hit her, she was sitting on the ground facing Drogon. I picture her sitting with her legs drawn up in front of her and her arms in front of her legs in a defensive posture (that is what I would do, anyway).

Put all this anther way. If we start with a question: "is the furnace wind that engulfed Daenerys just hot breath or is it fire?" then the author's use of "furnace wind" and "furnace breath" suggest that Daenerys got hit with fire. Then, we only have to explain why her clothes turned to rags rather than burning away completely.

If we start with the premise that Daenerys has no special resistance to fire, then the furnace wind cannot be fire. We can then come up with a credible (but to my mind, a little strained) reading of the Quentyn chapter that says that the furnace wind hit him right before the fire hit him. But I don't think we can come up with a credible explanation for Balerion's "furnace breath."

Add the fact that Aegon the Conqueror sat in the middle of the courtyard at Harrenhal while Balerion melted the walls around him and I'm convinced that one of the special abilities some members of the Targaryen family possessed was a higher than normal resistance to fire.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Please, do not use what I said in a different context. I referred to Arya's ability to control Nymeria at the time of the incident at the Trident. Whatever link the two have, it was not manifest yet.

But my point is that Dany is "controlling" Drogon in much the same way Arya did, but Arya clearly had a subconscious link with Nymeria that grew stronger. I think Dany has a similar subconscious link to Drogon.

We saw what happened to Quentyn (who didn't have Targaryen blood), tried virtually the same thing that Dany tried.

And I personally think Dany's link to Drogon is at least in part magical much like we find out Arya's is to Nymeria.

[Lykos]

Of course there are Tagaryens that are fire-resistant. You are too, just as I am. The question is how much.

Sadly I totally fail at finding the quotes in the SSM I´ve been looking for. There was one where Martin said that a dragonrider doesn´t necessarily have to be Targaryen (so Tyrion doesn´t need to be a Targ to do so) and another where he stated that Targaryens might have a higher than average heat tolerance, which I took as - they scream in pain a little later or don´t break into sweat as soon as average people, just as northmen start to shiver a littler later than average.

I don´t think the Targaryens have a magical connection, but I think it´s possible. The dragons are somewhat magical / have an "unnatural history" after all. It seems however that the Targaryens didn´t need magic horns to ride dragons as other Valyrians did. I think they were people who were able to ride the dragons without magic due to faith and conviction and they formed a sort of elite cavalry of the freehold. The backdraft was that they didn´t know anything about magic and they were reckless bordering to madness. They were convinced (deluding themselves) of their specialness and tried to preserve their special traits by marrying their siblings.

I also think that the ability to skinchange is not that special genetically, it´s just that only one in a thousand people realizes this potential (and in the south or civilisations further removed from nature even less) . I think the bonding of all the Stark kids is a one time magical thing comparable to Dany´s pyre.

Here is what I think happened in the fighting pit as I stated it in another thread.

liam stark, dragons might make excellent hats. :laugh: Sorry, but you really know how to provoke silly answers. So you don´t have to live with Dany being not fireproof, only the Dany in GRRM´s story does.

You made the statement that, "Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin." and tze made you aware of the technique of the unreliable narrator.

I gave you an example where Dany makes a statement that is instantly prooven untrue.

I think that it fit quite well because Dany used it to reassure herself of her specialness, which she needs to keep her going, since her confidence is shaken.

She knows that she could have died in the pit by a crossbow bolt as well as by a serious dragonfire blast that really hit her. The way I see it Drogon is like a wolf raised by Dany. They know each other very well, so when Drogon is attacked while feeding and he strikes back Dany knows how to dodge the flames and Drogon will have pulled back as much as possible, when he recognized her.

Of course he breathes fire, we are told so by at least four different characters, but that gives us only the information that her hair burnt catching fire in the dragonflame. This is actually a confirmation that she wasn´t hit by a full blast, because people would have been unable to discern her burning hair from the dragon flame. It also makes sense for dragons to be able to adjust the heat of their fire in order to char their food just right and not burning it to ashes.

It might be helpfull for you if you´d listened to some of Martins latest interviews, at no point does he say that he changed his mind about no Targaryens being imune to fire and he also explains that he is interested in the trouble good poeple have, when given power. He gives the example of Aragorn becoming king and everything is hunky-dory suddenly in the "Lord of the Rings". He explicitly states that he is telling a different story, where he examines how power works. Here is an interesting thread on that.

Here is an intereresting read about purple eyed "Übermenschen", which might be a coincidence, but who knows. ;)

[TheTowerOfJoy]

So to restate it to be a little clear since some people are apparently getting confused by the distinction between Fire Resistant and Fire Immune/Proof, why don't we call it Flame Retardant?

So, with that said, the OP is asking whether certain Targaryens (perhaps only those who have "bonded" with a dragon) are varying levels of flame retardant?