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The "Last" Greenseer


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19 replies to this topic

#1 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:17 AM

Could we be looking at the definition of "last" incorrectly? That statement could be meant two ways, either Bloodraven could be the last greenseer, meaning he's the only one left, but couldn't it also mean that he is the last greenseer, as in the last between the realm and the Lands of Always Winter?

I started wondering about this because Bran, through Hodor, sees what appear to be other greenseers inside the caves, and I personally think that the Greenmen are actually just Greenseers as well, or else surely some of the characters by now would have run into someone from the God's Eye.

#2 TheTowerOfJoy

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:07 AM

Last could mean none come after him, or it could mean that he is the one before the previous (ie Last Thursday).

I definitely agree that the Green men are connected to the Greenseers. Perhaps they were magically blooded humans (not unlike the Starks) who were given the weirwood paste by the CotF following the Pact?

#3 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

Last could mean none come after him, or it could mean that he is the one before the previous (ie Last Thursday).

I definitely agree that the Green men are connected to the Greenseers. Perhaps they were magically blooded humans (not unlike the Starks) who were given the weirwood paste by the CotF following the Pact?

Or physically, like the last gas station before heading into a desert.

But yeah Greenmen would have to be more inbred than the Targs if they are the only people on that tiny little island for thousands of years, there's got to be more to them than that.

#4 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:44 AM

Or physically, like the last gas station before heading into a desert.

But yeah Greenmen would have to be more inbred than the Targs if they are the only people on that tiny little island for thousands of years, there's got to be more to them than that.

You ninjad me, i always wondered how the people of Westeros think there is no interaction with the Greenmen when obviously they have to interact somewhat for the Greenmen to even exist. Unless their all people like BR forever merged to trees and not people at all.

#5 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:51 AM

You ninjad me, i always wondered how the people of Westeros think there is no interaction with the Greenmen when obviously they have to interact somewhat for the Greenmen to even exist. Unless their all people like BR forever merged to trees and not people at all.

That's what got me wondering about that whole "last" part. It would also make sense that Howland could visit the Greenmen and learn from them because Meera(or Jojen) mentions that in the Neck they live closer to the trees than anywhere else, so if they are actual Greenseers he would still have been able to learn from them. That or the people there only reproduce when someone dies, else there would be little greenbabies everywhere. And judging by the maps the island itself is less that a quarter of the size of Harrenhal.

#6 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:08 AM

That's what got me wondering about that whole "last" part. It would also make sense that Howland could visit the Greenmen and learn from them because Meera(or Jojen) mentions that in the Neck they live closer to the trees than anywhere else, so if they are actual Greenseers he would still have been able to learn from them. That or the people there only reproduce when someone dies, else there would be little greenbabies everywhere. And judging by the maps the island itself is less that a quarter of the size of Harrenhal.

Makes sense then that the Greenmen probably arent alive, most likely humans merged into trees thousands of years ago. Maybe those who visit the Isle of Faces come back with green dreams or possibly an awakening to be a greenseer and join the greenmen.

Edited by The Prince of Ice, 24 July 2013 - 02:09 AM.


#7 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:13 AM

I'll have to go hunting but I think there's an SSM about getting to see that island before the series is over.

#8 King of Winters

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

I'll have to go hunting but I think there's an SSM about getting to see that island before the series is over.

Yes GRRM did say we'd visit the Isle of Faces before the series is over.
I also think that the Greenmen and the Isle are connected to the COTF and Bloodraven.
Just a thought, could Bloodraven be the Last Greenseer because all the other Greenseers Bran sees are too weak to use Weirwood Network or something like? It's probably not, but I'm just interested in this topic now /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.

#9 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:32 AM

Yes GRRM did say we'd visit the Isle of Faces before the series is over.
I also think that the Greenmen and the Isle are connected to the COTF and Bloodraven.
Just a thought, could Bloodraven be the Last Greenseer because all the other Greenseers Bran sees are too weak to use Weirwood Network or something like? It's probably not, but I'm just interested in this topic now /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.

I think its more like them becoming tree like sortve like Huorns in LOTR. So in a way they are becoming weaker by slowing losing inteligence.
Maybe Last Greenseer means hes the last concious one, the rest have faded away into the weirwood net. Other than Bran that is.

Edited by The Prince of Ice, 24 July 2013 - 02:43 AM.


#10 King of Winters

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

Maybe Last Greenseer means hes the last concious one, thes rest have faded away into the weirwood net. Other than Bran that is.

Yeah, something like that where all the others are slowly dying and going into the trees and nature now.

#11 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

Yes GRRM did say we'd visit the Isle of Faces before the series is over.
I also think that the Greenmen and the Isle are connected to the COTF and Bloodraven.
Just a thought, could Bloodraven be the Last Greenseer because all the other Greenseers Bran sees are too weak to use Weirwood Network or something like? It's probably not, but I'm just interested in this topic now /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.

I think its more like them becoming tree like sortve like Huorns in LOTR. So in a way they are becoming weaker by slowing losing inteligence.
Maybe Last Greenseer means hes the last concious one, thes rest have faded away into the weirwood net. Other than Bran that is.

Could be that they are just not capable of communicating with people anymore, and can only communicate with the others in the network. Bloodraven would be something like a conduit for their knowledge to be passed on until Bran is ready to dive in fully.

#12 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:46 AM

Could be that they are just not capable of communicating with people anymore, and can only communicate with the others in the network. Bloodraven would be something like a conduit for their knowledge to be passed on until Bran is ready to dive in fully.

It makes sense all those memories locked inside the Weirwood net must come from somewhere, greenseers/weirwood memories make the most sense.

Off topic but this reminds of me in the movie Avatar when the People connect to their ancestors through that Huge tree.

Edited by The Prince of Ice, 24 July 2013 - 02:50 AM.


#13 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:57 AM

Actually I had an odd thought after reading the Varamyr chapter, it's not really a theory but since we seem to be the only ones discussing this I'll share it to see what you guys think. When he dies in front of the Weirwood, he sees through everything all at once, the tree the ravens in the tree and the worms in the ground. If the Weirwoods don't forget, say the memories are burned into their own memories, wouldn't that mean that wherever someone dies in front of one of them then everything that's happening at that moment is recorded by the weirwood? Maybe that would account for how Bloodraven can see beyond the trees and it would explain the need for a sacrifice. What do you think?

edt It's nutty I know but I have a lot of free time.

Edited by mindchap, 24 July 2013 - 02:58 AM.


#14 Morienthar

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:58 AM

I see it as the Latest Greenseer,there's always one at all points in history.

#15 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:11 AM

Actually I had an odd thought after reading the Varamyr chapter, it's not really a theory but since we seem to be the only ones discussing this I'll share it to see what you guys think. When he dies in front of the Weirwood, he sees through everything all at once, the tree the ravens in the tree and the worms in the ground. If the Weirwoods don't forget, say the memories are burned into their own memories, wouldn't that mean that wherever someone dies in front of one of them then everything that's happening at that moment is recorded by the weirwood? Maybe that would account for how Bloodraven can see beyond the trees and it would explain the need for a sacrifice. What do you think?

edt It's nutty I know but I have a lot of free time.

It could work, it also could be that he was a warg and died by a weirwood so his conciousness went into the weirwood net when he died.

#16 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:38 AM

It could work, it also could be that he was a warg and died by a weirwood so his conciousness went into the weirwood net when he died.

Yeah, makes me wonder if it only happens to wargs is that who they were sacrificing for all those years and then it just kind of turned into tradition to just execute people in front of the Heartree.

#17 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:51 AM

Yeah, makes me wonder if it only happens to wargs is that who they were sacrificing for all those years and then it just kind of turned into tradition to just execute people in front of the Heartree.

Maybe if you die in front of a heart tree your memories may pass though to the tree through your blood. So anyone could contribute to the weirwood net not just wargs possibly. This some serious speculation obviously.

#18 mindchap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:00 AM

Maybe if you die in front of a heart tree your memories may pass though to the tree through your blood. So anyone could contribute to the weirwood net not just wargs possibly. This some serious speculation obviously.

Yeah that's why I prefer to get on at night, you don't get quite as much ridicule for speculation. It also makes me wonder what will happen to Varamyr when One Eye dies? Does he truly die then or does a warg just kind of quantum leap through the eons from one creature to the next.

#19 The Prince of Ice

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:06 AM

Yeah that's why I prefer to get on at night, you don't get quite as much ridicule for speculation. It also makes me wonder what will happen to Varamyr when One Eye dies? Does he truly die then or does a warg just kind of quantum leap through the eons from one creature to the next.

Who knows maybe if One Eye is near a heart tree he will transfer over completely or if he dies out in the middle of nowhere he has a true death.

Edited by The Prince of Ice, 24 July 2013 - 04:07 AM.


#20 bemused

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:10 PM

Yeah that's why I prefer to get on at night, you don't get quite as much ridicule for speculation. It also makes me wonder what will happen to Varamyr when One Eye dies? Does he truly die then or does a warg just kind of quantum leap through the eons from one creature to the next.


Just fa-a-ades away over time ,I think, getting weaker and weaker..and I think the prologue is pretty clear that you can't skinchange from an animal body. Besides , Varamyr was never a potential greenseer like Bran, just a skinchanger. His consciousness will get weaker and eventually die completely with One-eye - no weirwood for him , then. ...He though he was great , but the truth is , he was just cruel , unprincipled and greedy.