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why the HBO show 'MIGHT' have f****d up


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#1 TORMUNDSMEMBER10

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:29 PM

*************************SPOILERS**************************** (I posted this in the 'general' forum but I think it automatically got moved to the tv series forum because I used the words HBO... which is the reason i thought spoilers would be okay...) Right, I agree that the HBO show 'Game of thrones' is the best thing on TV. But it is still not as good as the books. and they have left out things and changed things that could come back to bite them. firstly, there are only two Tyrell siblings, so we wont really know anything about the iron born taking the shields? because nobody could inform loras or Margery? so will the show leave that out? also they have merged gendry and edric storm in the show, both of them probably have further storylines in different locations so what will they do there? also why is Asha (sorry 'Yara') going to save theon? the kingsmoot is surely soon, will they do that without Asha? I originally thought that she would return home when she finds out her father died, but why would they have introduced that scene in the show just to send her straight back home? she surely cant take theon back because that would change too much? now the MAJOR one is that there is a theory jeyne westerling is with the blackfish and pregnant. I originally thought this was a terrible idea because its too much of a happy fairytale kind of thing (even though Robb was my fave non POV character , arya and jon being my faves). But I then think it wont be a bad idea because he wont really play a part in the books (because jon would be king of the north regent? until baby comes of age). so not much would change apart from we can end the book knowing the starks may live on and reproduce instead of being wiped out ( currently rickon is the only one who could carry on the stark line). and the best part of this theory would be the look on Dan and Davids face when they read about the baby king in the north! anybody got any ideas what they would do about it? I cant think of anything they could do which wouldn't be pretty stupid. am I the only one who thinks they have a problem on their hands or do people think they are fine? /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Edited by TORMUNDSMEMBER10, 26 July 2013 - 01:00 PM.


#2 Snow_Shrike

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:45 PM

I have my reservations about the show too. But not because of what's been left out - there was no way to put everything on film. My feeling is that they are going a little too fast. S. 3 ended with the red wedding. and the latest news is that Oberyn Martell and Elllaria Sand are cast for season four. Barristan is already with Dany, and Jorah has been sent away. That suggest a lot of stuff will be compacted into season four, possibly most of ASOS. that leaves season 5 should there be one, as AFFC, and ADWD. My question is, will GRRM get the next book out in time to match the speed of the series, or will the two diverge? How will that work?
Also, they had Locke take Jamie's hand. That robbed me of Vargo the Goat, saying,"My lord, Harrenhal isth yourth". I was looking forward to that.

Edited by Snow_Shrike, 26 July 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#3 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:47 PM

They removed the Dany and Jorah kiss ;(

#4 TORMUNDSMEMBER10

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

I have my reservations about the show too. But not because of what's been left out - there was no way to put everything on film. My feeling is that they are going a little too fast. S. 3 ended with the red wedding. and the latest news is that Oberyn Martell and Elllaria Sand are cast for season four. Barristan is already with Dany, and Jorah has been sent away. That suggest a lot of stuff will be compacted into season four, possibly most of ASOS. that leaves season 5 should there be one, as AFFC, and ADWD. My question is, will GRRM get the next book out in time to match the speed of the series, or will the two diverge? How will that work?
Also, they had Locke take Jamie's hand. That robbed me of Vargo the Goat, saying,"My lord, Harrenhal isth yourth". I was looking forward to that.

haha good ol' vargo! and I think TWOW will be okay but ADOS will not, they may have to take 4-5 seasons for AFFC and ADWD instead of 3, also GRRM recently said 7 books is not 'written in blood' suggesting there could be more?

#5 TORMUNDSMEMBER10

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

They removed the Dany and Jorah kiss ;(

I know:( I think that will take away a lot of the emotion for non readers when she sends jorah away, and they wont be able to see into her mind to know she regrets it

#6 Clocksquirrel

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

GRRM has told the writers of the show what's going to happen in rough strokes right? Tbh, i think that changes like Gendry and Edric being rolled into one unfortunately means that neither character will have a significant role in future books, or GRRM would not have allowed them to do it. I know the show does vary from the book in some ways but I don't think they'd make that big of a change unless that was the case. Similarly the exclusion of Strong Belwas probably means he's got nothing special coming up :/

#7 ellisg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:12 PM

The thing is the show is a different animal to the book. They're both telling the same story but as Martin said, if you change one thing it causes a butterfly effect meaning other things change consequently. Also bear in mind that George has told David and Dan how the story ends. If Jeyne Westerling is indeed pregnant with Robb Starks child I doubt they would have killed Talisia off in the show. If Edric Storm has a bigger role to play I doubt they would have merged him with Gendry in the show. As for the Asha/Yara going to save Theon Greyjoy and not having time to get back for the kingsmoot: I think this would have be a problem if she had been made queen. The crown goes to Euron and he sends Victarion off on his mission and Asha ends up back in the north anyway. I reckon they'll just have the Kingsmoot between Victarion and Euron to illustrate the enemity between the two and plonk her in the North without her even going.

Also Remember that Game of Thrones is based on A Song of Ice and Fire as a whole so they can move characters and scenes about e.g. the Reed siblings being introduced in season 3 instead of 2 and the Red Wedding occurring before the death of Balon Greyjoy. This may mean that the Jorah and Dany kiss may happen right before she sends him away making his betrayal even worse for Dany.

I think season 5 will be both a bit of both Feast for Crows and Dance.There would be an uproar if Dany, Jon and Tyrion were missing for an entire season, I could see them actually making that last through season 6 and the majority of season 7. They split book 3 into two seasons and in the UK the paperback edition of book 3 is split into two like Dance. They'll also want to give Martin time to release TWoW so I really think Feast and Dance will take up all of season 5 and 6 and the majority of season 7 if not all of it.

#8 Frumpus

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:21 PM

Unless you're looking forward to seeing Bran being played by a late 20s adult, I don' think they will spend 4-5 seasons on a single book. They want to end the series in 8 seasons and it will be inevitable that the show will conclude before ADoS comes out.

Edited by Frumpus, 26 July 2013 - 01:21 PM.


#9 Miryana

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

I think season 5 will be both a bit of both Feast for Crows and Dance.There would be an uproar if Dany, Jon and Tyrion were missing for an entire season, I could see them actually making that last through season 6 and the majority of season 7. They split book 3 into two seasons and in the UK the paperback edition of book 3 is split into two like Dance. They'll also want to give Martin time to release TWoW so I really think Feast and Dance will take up all of season 5 and 6 and the majority of season 7 if not all of it.


The showrunners are currently talking about a story that lasts 80 hours, 8 seasons. They won't do TWOW and ADOS in a single season; even two seasons, if we got 9 instead of 8 in a situation in which GOT sustains its popularity, would be tough considering how much has yet to happen. And while ideally Martin would release TWOW before they have to start planning season 6, if he doesn't they'll just have to manage based on what he's revealed about the plot. The show is more important to HBO than the books.

Even ASOS, a big book and the most popular, action-packed one, isn't getting two full seasons. Some characters are almost done with ASOS at the end of S3 and will move to AFFC/ADWD material in S4. And those books don't offer nearly as much material as the page count alone would indicate.

#10 Cold Gin Hands

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

If GoT continues to be as popular as it is HBO will be in no hurry to shorten up the series. Sopranos had 86 episodes over 6 seasons.

Edited by Mead King, 26 July 2013 - 01:43 PM.


#11 TORMUNDSMEMBER10

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

GRRM has told the writers of the show what's going to happen in rough strokes right? Tbh, i think that changes like Gendry and Edric being rolled into one unfortunately means that neither character will have a significant role in future books, or GRRM would not have allowed them to do it. I know the show does vary from the book in some ways but I don't think they'd make that big of a change unless that was the case. Similarly the exclusion of Strong Belwas probably means he's got nothing special coming up :/

if they weren't important why would they keep returning (gendry in particular) and you cant say jeyne wasn't important and leaving her at RR wasn't important so I don't really think that the show is in sync with GRRM or will change the story a little?

#12 TORMUNDSMEMBER10

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

Unless you're looking forward to seeing Bran being played by a late 20s adult, I don' think they will spend 4-5 seasons on a single book. They want to end the series in 8 seasons and it will be inevitable that the show will conclude before ADoS comes out.

technically 4-5 seasons on 3 books? also twow and ados are going to be part 1 and 2 books? they are spending 2 seasons on asos so technically if they are going for a season a book there will be 11 seasons, if they only do 8 they will need to change everything, in simple terms they cant do it well in 8 seasons

#13 ellisg

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:37 PM

If the popularity of the show continues to grow I can see them going for more than 8 seasons. Not just that but Martin plans on the last two books being as big as A Storm of Swords and you know in order for him to finish the series within those two they'll have to be just as action packed as ASoS if not more so. The plots of those two last books may demand more than one season each.

#14 Dark_Sister

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:10 PM

If one of the changes they made means they can't adapt one of the future storylines just like it is in the books, relax, they can make more changes. Problem solved.

I'm sure the writers know very well how the changes they made will affect the future plots and are ready to deal with those "butterfly effects" when the time comes.

#15 Lord Elrosir

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:30 PM

They do know because GRRM has remarked on butting heads with them every time they intend to kill someone on the show that is living in the book. I personally side more with the producers because they are dealing with the realities of filming a series that is very unfriendly to filming. With that, the producers need to condense, trim, and edit the novels into a filmable and compelling TV series.

#16 Vympel

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:33 AM

*************************SPOILERS**************************** (I posted this in the 'general' forum but I think it automatically got moved to the tv series forum because I used the words HBO... which is the reason i thought spoilers would be okay...) Right, I agree that the HBO show 'Game of thrones' is the best thing on TV. But it is still not as good as the books. and they have left out things and changed things that could come back to bite them. firstly, there are only two Tyrell siblings, so we wont really know anything about the iron born taking the shields? because nobody could inform loras or Margery? so will the show leave that out?


How does having more Tyrell siblings assist that plot at all? Garlan Tyrell is a complete bit character in the books, and Willas Tyrell has never even been met. How is their presence relevant to the Ironborn attacking the Reach? Loras and Margaery can find that out by raven. There, done.

also they have merged gendry and edric storm in the show, both of them probably have further storylines in different locations so what will they do there?


Merge / ignore them as necessary.

also why is Asha (sorry 'Yara') going to save theon? the kingsmoot is surely soon, will they do that without Asha? I originally thought that she would return home when she finds out her father died, but why would they have introduced that scene in the show just to send her straight back home? she surely cant take theon back because that would change too much?


The Kingsmoot can be in Season 5.

now the MAJOR one is that there is a theory jeyne westerling is with the blackfish and pregnant.


Obviously that theory was false.

#17 Wisenan69

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:19 AM

The show "cut" Rob's will, naming Jon the heir and legitimating him. What are they going to do, flashbacks without Rob? I cannot believe this is not extremely important in Jon's arc.

#18 Knight Moves

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:29 AM

I know:( I think that will take away a lot of the emotion for non readers when she sends jorah away, and they wont be able to see into her mind to know she regrets it


It might still happen...

I think a lot of people are assuming that because the show changed certain things that these things are never going to happen. I'm not saying its good but perhaps they have to do it for the sake of the structure of the series.

An example being Osha and rickon not leaving at the start of season 3. They still left didn't they? It dragged brans story out a bit too much but they still did what they did in the books.

Same with the reeds not showing up in season 2. They still show up.

As does Ramsey.

I like to think the show knows what it's doing more than we think and (not that I'm saying its how a lot of us would have wanted it) they have all these changes and stuff figured out in the long run.

Jorah might still kiss Dany.

We haven't even seen mace tyrell yet so there's a chance that there could be other tyrell siblings still to be introduced.

Asha or Yara (I hate that nonsense) is the only one I'm not sure of but again I'm sure they've got it covered.

I'd also like to say I'm not completely supporting every single change the TV show has made. Some things have bothered me quite a bit but its an amazing thing to see in general so its better to be positive about it.

Edited by Paul Symon, 27 July 2013 - 04:31 AM.


#19 echidna

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:17 AM

I agree with a point I heard made on a GoT podcast recently. The Godfather is considered by many people to be a great movie yet its different to the book its based upon. Should The Godfather movie be considered a failure because it merges characters, changes plotlines etc? Of course not.

As I can see the only obvious plot amendment to save a character was the rather clunky 'Blackfish needs to pee' scene. Many GoT characters are expendable, just like half the characters in The Godfather

Edited by echidna, 27 July 2013 - 05:19 AM.


#20 CakeOfTheMorning

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:15 AM

haha good ol' vargo! and I think TWOW will be okay but ADOS will not, they may have to take 4-5 seasons for AFFC and ADWD instead of 3, also GRRM recently said 7 books is not 'written in blood' suggesting there could be more?


It's hard to take you seriously after reading this. 3 seasons is impossible, let alone 4-5. The most agreed upon scenario is that season 4 will be the end of Asos and the start of AFFC+ADWD, season 5 will be the end of AFFC and ADWD and there will be 3 or 4 seasons left for the last two books.