why the HBO show 'MIGHT' have f****d up

[Vympel]

The show "cut" Rob's will, naming Jon the heir and legitimating him. What are they going to do, flashbacks without Rob? I cannot believe this is not extremely important in Jon's arc.

The show has a clear "no flashbacks" policy. The show "cut" Jaime and Brienne's oath to Catelyn to return her daughters, yet they still referenced it in Season 3.

[Azzazel]

if they weren't important why would they keep returning (gendry in particular) and you cant say jeyne wasn't important and leaving her at RR wasn't important so I don't really think that the show is in sync with GRRM or will change the story a little?

Or maybe people can't deal with the fact that their Jeyne theory is wrong.

[Khal Porno]

I watched the first episode of CBS's adaptation of Stephen King's Under the Dome last night, and they changed EVERYTHING around. It made me appreciate the fidelity of Game of Thrones all the more.

[Fightbringer]

on some of the changes you talked about

the lack of tyrell siblings: its not like willas and garlan are the only way the tyrells have of finding out about whats going on in their own lands. It could just as easily be literally anyone in the reach, who isnt ironborn. Also the Tyrells in the reach dont make any appearance in aFfC, so its not like the show would be missing out on anything there. I'm presuming that if anything happens in the reach, Samwell will be there to see it, seeing as it probably will be in Oldtown, so the Tyrells probably wont be of great importance in that storyline. Even if they are, they could replace them with one of their bannermen, or a cousin or uncle. The lack of Tyrell brothers annoys me too, but in the grand scheme of things you have to admit that they cant go spending all their money on casting, which is what they'd be doing if they cast all the characters from the book. Seeing as Garlan is an incredibly minor character and willas has yet to make an appearance, its probably a smart move from the show

Edric Storm being merged with Gendry: Again, this move saved them some money on the casting front, plus it makes things less complicated. I dont know about you, but I think that most people would agree with me when I say that I doubt Edric Storm will ever make a reappearance, or if he does he wont have much plot significance, seeing as he's across the sea in the free cities now. The show runners know more about the end than we do, so I think they know he isnt of much significance later on. At the end of the day it fulfills the same plot of the whole Edric Storm thing. They can still make Gendry come back into the plotline if he's really that significant with his BwB thing, it might seem a bit strained to suggest he goes back but the showrunners could make it happen if it was that important.

Asha: Dunno where this is going, but i think that its entirely possible that this will feed into the kingsmoot plotline, introducing the viewer to her so that the kingsmoot (may be later on this season or in season 5, given the lack of stuff they have to work with then) is more significant. This way, the viewer, can get to know asha so that when she goes to the kingsmoot, if doesnt just seem like a gathering of randomers, so that her uncles can be better introduced too. Plus there's nothing going on with Theon next season, they cant just leave him out like GRRM does with some characters for half a book or so, so plotline has to be invented. It's a necessary evil, and as long as it remains true to the spirit of the books then I'm fine with it.

Jeyne being pregnant: D&D know how it ends, so they probably know already if she was pregnant, or more likely, she wasnt and the description was either a fuck up on GRRM's part or significant for another reason. I believe that Talisa's death in the show does signal that theory isnt right, especially as they said she was pregnant before killing her, probably too make the book fans believe they were right before destroying their hopes like all the non book readers had there's destroyed by Robbs death.

Overall, I think that some changes are just necessary for the show not to get too confusing (and a lot of non book readers find it a little confusing already) and not to go overbudget. Plus a lot of the changes are in order to preserve the budget for other things which are more important to book readers. For example if they'd kept Jeyne Westerling and cast her family to, we may not have had the wildfire explosion. Its still easily the best show on TV for me, and I can see why they made a lot of the changes they did (although some annoy me to) but it stil isnt as good as the books, but it shouldnt be expected to be, because even the best tv shows and films fail to equal the books they were written about

[King Jon Targ]

I think the fact that Edric Storm and Gendry being merged means that one of them will be important in the coming books rather than both, which is kind of a bummer. Maybe they take Gendry's storyline in the show and follow the tracks of Edric (wherever he may end up). I'm not too about anything really. I've read a lot of books that were adapted for some other medium and D&D have done a wonderful and faithful adaption. We should really be more appreciative.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Or maybe people can't deal with the fact that their Jeyne theory is wrong.

I think I've said it 100 times, but the Jeyne theory was always a terrible one. It's based upon almost nothing, and if it were to be true, with 2 books left how would it even matter? Oh great, a 2 month old Stark kid raised by exactly zero Starks, that's exactly what the North needs.

[Ser Tahu]

*************************SPOILERS**************************** (I posted this in the 'general' forum but I think it automatically got moved to the tv series forum because I used the words HBO... which is the reason i thought spoilers would be okay...) Right, I agree that the HBO show 'Game of thrones' is the best thing on TV. But it is still not as good as the books. and they have left out things and changed things that could come back to bite them. firstly, there are only two Tyrell siblings, so we wont really know anything about the iron born taking the shields? because nobody could inform loras or Margery? so will the show leave that out? also they have merged gendry and edric storm in the show, both of them probably have further storylines in different locations so what will they do there? also why is Asha (sorry 'Yara') going to save theon? the kingsmoot is surely soon, will they do that without Asha? I originally thought that she would return home when she finds out her father died, but why would they have introduced that scene in the show just to send her straight back home? she surely cant take theon back because that would change too much? now the MAJOR one is that there is a theory jeyne westerling is with the blackfish and pregnant. I originally thought this was a terrible idea because its too much of a happy fairytale kind of thing (even though Robb was my fave non POV character , arya and jon being my faves). But I then think it wont be a bad idea because he wont really play a part in the books (because jon would be king of the north regent? until baby comes of age). so not much would change apart from we can end the book knowing the starks may live on and reproduce instead of being wiped out ( currently rickon is the only one who could carry on the stark line). and the best part of this theory would be the look on Dan and Davids face when they read about the baby king in the north! anybody got any ideas what they would do about it? I cant think of anything they could do which wouldn't be pretty stupid. am I the only one who thinks they have a problem on their hands or do people think they are fine? :)

I couldn't be bothered reading all of the replies, so sorry if I am repeating anything, but I will tackle these concerns one by one:

Firstly, keep in mind that D&D know the twists that are coming up and how the story ends, and that so far (aside from minor things like combining Gendry and Edric, or the survival of the leaders of Qarth) the deviations have always lead back to where the books are.

The non-existence of Willas Tyrell - He isn't the only one capable of sending ravens or riders with a message, they could easily be told of the Ironborn invasion by someone else. If I remember correctly Olenna Redwyne returns to Highgarden in AFfC, so maybe she could send the word.

Gendry and Edric being combined - Based on AFfC and ADwD I highly doubt that Gendry will end up having any major role outside the Brotherhood. As for Edric, I think that he may only be important in the conclusion of the series (ie if Stannis dies Edric may be legitimised and made Lord of Storm's End), but that is just speculation. Unless Gendry has an important role that can only be done by him I suspect that Gendry may not return to the Brotherhood and essentially follow Edric's story. OR alternatively if Edric simply emerges at the end of the series and is made Lord of Storm's End, Gendry may join the Brotherhood then leave at the end to take that role. Although there is the potential for problems I don't think it will be anything so big that they can't easily work around it.

YarAsha 'saving' Theon - Firstly, you are assuming that the Kingsmoot will be in season 4, even though there is no indication that this will be the case. And secondly, if Balon does die early in the season YarAsha has no way to know until she reaches the Dreadfort because she is on a boat. Thirdly, you are assuming that she will defeat the Boltons. My personal theory: episode 2 - Balon is talking to Aeron when he is killed. 3 - Euron crowns himself with Aeron as the viewpoint for this happening. YarAsha assaults the Dreadfort but is repelled, and Ramsay taunts her with the knowledge of Balon's death. 6 - YarAsha returns to Pyke and confronts Euron. 7 or 8 - YarAsha conspires with Aeron. 9 - YarAsha and/or Aeron inform Euron that they have called a Kingsmoot. Season 5 episode 2 - the Kingsmoot.

Talisa/Jeyne being dead - GRRM has essentially come out and said that Jaime thinking Jeyne has narrow hips was a mistake on his part, so that theory is disproved. Talisa dying then confirms that Jeyne won't play a MAJOR role in the final books.

[YuriP]

i'm quite sure you would have done a better job with the same resources but to bad it ain't the real world so deal with it.

[KC_Accidental]

I have my reservations about the show too. But not because of what's been left out - there was no way to put everything on film. My feeling is that they are going a little too fast. S. 3 ended with the red wedding. and the latest news is that Oberyn Martell and Elllaria Sand are cast for season four. Barristan is already with Dany, and Jorah has been sent away. That suggest a lot of stuff will be compacted into season four, possibly most of ASOS. that leaves season 5 should there be one, as AFFC, and ADWD.

I don't get your complaint. With all due respect you should maybe read the books again.

The Red Wedding happens in the first half of ASOS (season 3).

Oberyn appears in ASOS, can't remember when exactly but probably second half. He has to be there for Joffreys wedding in season 4 afterall.

Barristan actually appears in Clash of Kings, in Qarth! But you're complaining that they're going to fast?

Jorah's been sent away? Whit?

It's been said before that Feast and Dance will be merged and most likely split into 2 seasons. I suspect maybe even 3. Their pacing has for the large part been completely fine. If anything they've stalled on a few scenes/characters in order to not introduce too many characters too quickly (the Reeds, Reek, Edmure and Blackfish).

[Lord Elrosir]

LOL, telling someone you don't get their opinion when you think that there is a possibility of getting three seasons out of AFFC and ADWD.

please, tell me more.

[Colonel Green]

It's been said before that Feast and Dance will be merged and most likely split into 2 seasons. I suspect maybe even 3.

The only person who thinks that AFFC/ADWD will serve for 2-3 seasons is George R. R. Martin.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The only person who hopes that AFFC/ADWD will serve for 2-3 seasons is George R. R. Martin.

Fixed that for you.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 seasons for AFFC and ADWD would be ideal if they include the natural ending for ADWD which is to say the say Battle of Fire.

[Ser Tahu]

2 seasons for AFFC and ADWD would be ideal if they include the natural ending for ADWD which is to say the say Battle of Fire.

I kind of agree, however I think some storylines (Davos, Bran, Sansa) will have to enter TWoW at the start of season 6 with other storylines entering TWoW during the season, and I believe that Stannis vs the Boltons would work better as the conclusion of the season as far as timelines are concerned, with the battle for Meereen being right at the start of season 7 (probably episode 2). It seemed to me whilst reading ADwD that Stannis vs the Boltons had already taken place before Jon's final chapter, while the battle for Meereen is undoubtedly after all of the ADwD stuff.

[CakeOfTheMorning]

AFFC and ADWD can be done in 1.5 season, from 4.5 to 6, especially if they leave out Quentyn's trip or Myrcella's crowning.

[Ser Tahu]

AFFC and ADWD can be done in 1.5 season, from 4.5 to 6, especially if they leave out Quentyn's trip or Myrcella's crowning.

Or more likely from 5-6.5 WITH the Dornish stuff (with some storylines entering TWoW at the start of season 6, and others not entering TWoW until season 7). There isn't going to be this set cut off point where all stories end ADwD material and enter TWoW. Some have enough AFfC/ADwD materials to last two full seasons, while others only have enough for one.

[Colonel Green]

I don't really think anybody in AFFC/ADWD has a story that could be broken into two satisfying season-long arcs. There's a reason that Martin divided those books by geography.

[NorthRemembers10]

I'm am really confused on what is going to happen with the kingsmoot if Asha (Yara) is going to go save Theon. I think I'm ok with everything else.

[Ser Tahu]

I don't really think anybody in AFFC/ADWD has a story that could be broken into two satisfying season-long arcs. There's a reason that Martin divided those books by geography.

Hence why most people are saying 1.5 seasons with season 6 going into TWoW. Also, you need to keep in mind that AFfC ends around 1/2 - 2/3 of the way through Dance.

I believe that there are only two storylines that have enough material for two seasons: the Night's Watch and Meereen. My prediction:

Night's Watch:

season 5: starts off with the election in the first few episodes, and then the rest of the season is Jon establishing his rule. I believe that they will play up and expand upon Janos and Alliser's scheming to turn them into proper antagonists, with Janos' beheading happening late in the season.

season 6: The rest of Jon's chapters. The main focuses are him treating with the Wildlings and the Karstarks. Stannis vs the Boltons will be in episode 9 and Jon will be killed as the final scene of the season.

Meereen:

season 5: All of the pre-Meereenese knot stuff, so in the first half of the season the dragons run amok and the shadow war is raging. In the second half of the season as she finally starts to stabilise the city we hear of Yunkai crushing Astapor and marching towards Meereen. It ends with Daenerys agreeing to marry Hizdahr and Yunkai besieging the city, setting up season 6.

season 6: first half of the season is the Meereenese knot with the fighting pits happening in episode 5. episodes 6-7 will then be the aftermath and Hizdahr ruling, with Barristan and Quentyn's schemes going down as the episode 9 climax (most of the episode is Stannis vs the Boltons, but the last 10-15 minutes are Meereen). The finale is then a scene of Barristan ruling as Queen's Hand.

season 7: episode 1 ends with the trebuchets opening fire on Meereen. episode 2 is the battle of Meereen, ending with Daenerys returning and declaring that it is time to go to Westeros. (my theory is that her last ADwD chapter and first few TWoW chapters chronologically happen at the same time as Barristan's ADwD chapters, and that she will return towards the end of, or just after, the battle)

For everything else:

I believe season 5 will contain almost all of AFfC so we will get natural climaxes for those storylines. As for ADwD, I believe that we will get about half-2/3 of it in season 5. My predictions for the cutoff points of some storylines:

Stannis: leaving the wall

Tyrion: boarding the ship in Volantis with Jorah

Quentyn: arriving in the siege camps outside Meereen (I think they will keep his mission secret so the audience believes Arianne's theory that he is trying to steal her inheritance, so this will be an epic reveal)

Theon: arriving at Winterfell.

The reason I think this theory works well is because every finale (and penultimate episode) has to have a balance of conclusion from that season and setup for the next season. The AFfC storylines will provide conclusions while the ADwD storylines will provide setup.

I'm am really confused on what is going to happen with the kingsmoot if Asha (Yara) is going to go save Theon. I think I'm ok with everything else.

You are assuming that YarAsha will succeed. My theory:

episode 2 - Balon is murdered while talking to Aeron

3 - Euron crowns himself (with Aeron as the viewpoint for this). YarAsha is defeated by Ramsay. She finds out about Balon's death through Ramsay taunting her.

6 - YarAsha returns to Pyke and confronts Euron

7-8 - YarAhsa conspires with Aeron to call a kingsmoot to overthrow Euron.

9 - YarAsha and Aeron tell Euron that they have called a kingsmoot

season 5:

2 - the Kingsmoot.

[Colonel Green]

I think having the Night's Watch stuff last two seasons will have the effect Martin feared the five-year gap would have: stopping any momentum in the Others plot cold.