Is the queen of thorns sexist?

[Éadaoin]

And Tyrion is probably the most egalitarian of the Lannisters.

Not really. Jaime is.

[Blueberry Stark]

I never thought about her as sexist so much as misanthropic; she seems to believe that almost everyone is an unlikable idiot. However, after rereading some of her opinions on men quoted in this thread, I would say that she certainly seems to have a rather low opinion of most men. I suppose she is sexist, but since she doesn't have any real power, even within her family, does it really matter? Mace seems to make his own decisions without a lot of input from mom, IIRC.

[E-Ro]

Not really. Jaime is.

Jaime shmame, Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Kevan, all these lannisters are the same to me. Equally egilatarion and equally terrible people.

ETA:About randyle, yeah he is a bit of a dick, I can see him being annoyed with a female at court, but i dont think hes in a position to do much to her.

[Éadaoin]

Jaime shmame, Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Kevan, all these lannisters are the same to me. Equally egilatarion and equally terrible people.

So says the guy who consistently gets Jaime when he takes "What ASOIAF character would you be?" quizzes. Are you dealing with some self-hate or something?

Randyll is a massive jerk.

I never thought about her as sexist so much as misanthropic; she seems to believe that almost everyone is an unlikable idiot. However, after rereading some of her opinions on men quoted in this thread, I would say that she certainly seems to have a rather low opinion of most men. I suppose she is sexist, but since she doesn't have any real power, even within her family, does it really matter? Mace seems to make his own decisions without a lot of input from mom, IIRC.

I was thinking about this, too, though wrt her status as a woman in society. Her comments about men, while certainly not nice, are relatively harmless IMO.

[E-Ro]

So says the guy who consistently gets Jaime when he takes "What ASOIAF character would you be?" quizzes. Are you dealing with some self-hate or something?

Wow, I shared that with you in confidence, remind me never to share any secrets with you ever again. Those tests are all inaccurate and useless anyway, no one takes those things seriously.

Btw, nice quote in your sig, just like you to have one of the most sexist comments in the series as part of your account. Oh but as long as its not directed at women amiright?

[A Growing Evil]

Not really. Jaime is.

Nah...Jaime's not half bad on that front, but remember the way he thought of Brienne's besting him in combat. He specifically narrated that it was that she was a woman that was most humiliating.

Though I admit there's the possibility that he just finds combat capability in a woman a severe turnoff, but since Brienne wasn't really someone he had viewed through that lens...

[Blueberry Stark]

So says the guy who consistently gets Jaime when he takes "What ASOIAF character would you be?" quizzes. Are you dealing with some self-hate or something?

Randyll is a massive jerk.

I was thinking about this, too, though wrt her status as a woman in society. Her comments about men, while certainly not nice, are relatively harmless IMO.

I've heard it argued before, and rather effectively too, that women cannot be sexist in a patriarchal society as they have none of the actual power. I haven't read all 15 pages of the thread, so I have no idea if anyone has tried this argument in this thread. Although I don't agree with this view, it certainly would be a good direction to go with in regards to QoT. Of course, saying that women can't be sexist because they don't have power perpetuates the view of women as helpless victims lacking real autonomy, so I unilaterally reject this theory. The reason that I brought it up is that I don't want to be misleading - Olenna is sexist and misanthropic, but it hardly matters because she is in no way harming any men, or people in general, with her snarky comments. Plus, she's really funny.

[A Growing Evil]

I've heard it argued before, and rather effectively too, that women cannot be sexist in a patriarchal society as they have none of the actual power.

While I know you don't agree with it, I want to get into how ridiculous this argument is personally, so...

First up, a random individual making a single comment generally doesn't have any power regardless of where they are in the hierarchy, so by this logic that means that, I don't know, someone railing about them Mexicans all being criminals and needing to get out of the country isn't racist.

And of course, there are in fact times when being viewed as a separate ranking of people that needs the dominant people in society's protection can be turned to one's advantage because, well, people will be extra vigilant about your safety.

[Father of Hosts]

I've heard it argued before, and rather effectively too, that women cannot be sexist in a patriarchal society as they have none of the actual power. I haven't read all 15 pages of the thread, so I have no idea if anyone has tried this argument in this thread. Although I don't agree with this view, it certainly would be a good direction to go with in regards to QoT. Of course, saying that women can't be sexist because they don't have power perpetuates the view of women as helpless victims lacking real autonomy, so I unilaterally reject this theory. The reason that I brought it up is that I don't want to be misleading - Olenna is sexist and misanthropic, but it hardly matters because she is in no way harming any men, or people in general, with her snarky comments. Plus, she's really funny.

Indeed. We call this the 'elderly' defense. Where someone get to a stage in their life where they can literally say whatever they want, with no repercussions.

[Blueberry Stark]

While I know you don't agree with it, I want to get into how ridiculous this argument is personally, so...

First up, a random individual making a single comment generally doesn't have any power regardless of where they are in the hierarchy, so by this logic that means that, I don't know, someone railing about them Mexicans all being criminals and needing to get out of the country isn't racist.

And of course, there are in fact times when being viewed as a separate ranking of people that needs the dominant people in society's protection can be turned to one's advantage because, well, people will be extra vigilant about your safety.

Yes, it's also a good point that most people who make offensive, prejudice comments don't really have any power, so by the women cannot be sexist because of lack of power theory, it can be argued that most bigoted individuals aren't really bigoted. It is an argument that leads to trouble in a myriad of ways, but I also see it as counterproductive because it takes power away from women. I just really didn't want anyone to think that was what I was arguing. QoT is offensive to men, but I find her funny. I'll admit, I've laughed at many politically incorrect jokes just because they were funny, QoT' s wise-cracking included. I don't think that she's harming anyone or that, given the opportunity, that she would actively oppress men either, which is why I believe she is harmless. She makes some negative comments about Margaery's crowd of hens too, so it's not like it doesn't go both ways for her (I don't have time to find quotes right now, but I can post them later).

[l3ol3o]

I never thought about her as sexist so much as misanthropic; she seems to believe that almost everyone is an unlikable idiot. However, after rereading some of her opinions on men quoted in this thread, I would say that she certainly seems to have a rather low opinion of most men. I suppose she is sexist, but since she doesn't have any real power, even within her family, does it really matter? Mace seems to make his own decisions without a lot of input from mom, IIRC.

Since when does one need power for sexism to matter? A peasant can be just as sexist as a King. As for the QoT and power she has plenty of power. She is more powerful then 99.9% of the men and only a few women have more power then she does. She may not hold titles but she wields influence and is a major player in the GOT. She was the one who discovered the truth about Joff and she was the one that pulled the poison from Sansa's hairnet. She literally was responsible for the fall of one King and the rise of another. Mace does make his own decisions but he isn't what makes House Tyrell.

Btw, nice quote in your sig, just like you to have one of the most sexist comments in the series as part of your account. Oh but as long as its not directed at women amiright?

They probably thought that it's no big deal. Lala has had this sexist sig for weeks:

“All men are fools if truth be told, but the ones in motley are far more amusing than the ones in crowns”

- Lady Olenna Tyrell

When I grow ancient, I want to be the Queen of Thorns \(=v=)/

I don't know how one can expect to have their posts taken seriously or respected when discussing gender issues with a sexist quote in their signature.

[Blueberry Stark]

Since when does one need power for sexism to matter? A peasant can be just as sexist as a King. As for the QoT and power she has plenty of power. She is more powerful then 99.9% of the men and only a few women have more power then she does. She may not hold titles but she wields influence and is a major player in the GOT. She was the one who discovered the truth about Joff and she was the one that pulled the poison from Sansa's hairnet. She literally was responsible for the fall of one King and the rise of another. Mace does make his own decisions but he isn't what makes House Tyrell.

They probably thought that it's no big deal. Lala has had this sexist sig for weeks:

“All men are fools if truth be told, but the ones in motley are far more amusing than the ones in crowns”

- Lady Olenna Tyrell

When I grow ancient, I want to be the Queen of Thorns \(=v=)/

I don't know how one can expect to have their posts taken seriously or respected when discussing gender issues with a sexist quote in their signature.

I addressed your criticism in my very next post:

Yes, it's also a good point that most people who make offensive, prejudice comments don't really have any power, so by the women cannot be sexist because of lack of power theory, it can be argued that most bigoted individuals aren't really bigoted. It is an argument that leads to trouble in a myriad of ways, but I also see it as counterproductive because it takes power away from women. I just really didn't want anyone to think that was what I was arguing. QoT is offensive to men, but I find her funny. I'll admit, I've laughed at many politically incorrect jokes just because they were funny, QoT' s wise-cracking included. I don't think that she's harming anyone or that, given the opportunity, that she would actively oppress men either, which is why I believe she is harmless. She makes some negative comments about Margaery's crowd of hens too, so it's not like it doesn't go both ways for her (I don't have time to find quotes right now, but I can post them later).

To be clear, I don't think that she's being harmful to men in making her sexist comments. How has anyone been harmed by her snide comments? While I agree that a peasant can be as sexist as a king, I fail to see how it is possible for a powerless person (peasant) to be as harmful as a powerful person (king) when being sexist. I'll grant that QoT May have a lot more power than I've given her credit for; she did get rid of Joffery. I just don't see her particular type of sexism as harmful to anyone, and I still maintain that in spite of her sexist views against men, she is primarily misanthropic in her speech. She doesn't exactly spare women either.

[Rhymes with Weak]

Guys, most of us were brought up to believe sexism against men doesn't exist. However, since we're all mature, intelligent people we can all assuredly say that is false. Oh, and saying a woman is sexist who is obviously sexist isn't in and of itself sexist.

[tormund's beard]

Guys, most of us were brought up to believe sexism against men doesn't exist. However, since we're all mature, intelligent people we can all assuredly say that is false. Oh, and saying a woman is sexist who is obviously sexist isn't in and of itself sexist.

wut ?

[Facebookless Man]

what the hell is this thread even about

[Blueberry Stark]

what the hell is this thread even about

Is the Queen of Thorns sexist. Unanimously the answer seems to be yes; however, I said her sexism is harmless and funny, so it doesn't matter. I believe that statement has pissed some people off.

Guys, most of us were brought up to believe sexism against men doesn't exist. However, since we're all mature, intelligent people we can all assuredly say that is false. Oh, and saying a woman is sexist who is obviously sexist isn't in and of itself sexist.

Are you saying that someone is not being sexist for calling the QoT sexist because she obviously is? I don't think that anyone claimed that man is sexist for pointing out that a woman is sexist, if that's what you mean.

[Doran's Children]

"It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

Wow, I shared that with you in confidence, remind me never to share any secrets with you ever again. Those tests are all inaccurate and useless anyway, no one takes those things seriously.

Btw, nice quote in your sig, just like you to have one of the most sexist comments in the series as part of your account. Oh but as long as its not directed at women amiright?

Spot on, that signature is in very bad taste. I for one find it quite insulting and I'm sure others on this forum, regardless of gender, would agree.

[thenedstark]

what the hell is this thread even about

not sure myself, but I hope that men's right activists are regarded rightly as scumbags and scoundrels here. "Sexism" against men is hardly systematic or devastating.