Why Sansa is a great character

[Kittykatknits]

Actually, Ned and Sam are a lot like Sansa in a way. Ned and Sam have a similar amount of naivety as Sansa. Ned looks for the best in people and topples when shown the worst. Sam isnt wise to the world and "his place in it" is often put in question. Much like Sansa. This isnt actually the part of Sansa that i have trouble relating to btw. The part of Sansa that i had a lot of trouble grappling with was her inaction. I was raised to not take shit from anyone, so Sansa's whole "take one for the team" or "lie back and think of England" mentality was really difficult for me to "get". Ya know? Naivety is easy to relate to, no matter how world wise you are. Cuz once upon a time, we all had our heads in the clouds.

True, although I think many character share similarities to some extent.

Ned is also reserved, standoffish, can come off cold, and an introvert. Sam is bookish and nerdy, socially awkward and teased when he first arrives at the wall. Sansa is very feminine, popular, and naturally extroverted. She loves to be in the company of other people - see how she is with Marg and cousins, I happen to despise it. So, that's what I was referring too.

[Lala]

Actually, Ned and Sam are a lot like Sansa in a way. Ned and Sam have a similar amount of naivety as Sansa. Ned looks for the best in people and topples when shown the worst. Sam isnt wise to the world and "his place in it" is often put in question. Much like Sansa. This isnt actually the part of Sansa that i have trouble relating to btw. The part of Sansa that i had a lot of trouble grappling with was her inaction. I was raised to not take shit from anyone, so Sansa's whole "take one for the team" or "lie back and think of England" mentality was really difficult for me to "get". Ya know? Naivety is easy to relate to, no matter how world wise you are. Cuz once upon a time, we all had our heads in the clouds.

This is actually what I was trying to give an idea of in my first response. Sansa gets criticized for her inaction, unfairly imo, quite a lot, but I think if we really consider her situation and her resources there wasn't much she could do. I mean, she's a young girl with no independent financial resources, no friends, stuck in a giant castle filled with people who are constantly watching and testing her. One example I like to bring up are the Redwyne hostages - two grown men who apparently did have independent financial means and did not appear to be as closely watched as Sansa. They tried to bribe a captain to take them out of the RK, but the plan was immediately caught on Varys' and Tyrion's radars. How exactly did people expect Sansa to engineer a miraculous escape?

What she does do is fight back in the little ways (courtesy is a lady's armor - and weapon) - in her thoughts ("My brother is a traitor." "I am a Stark, my brother will give me your head on a spike."), in her moments of honesty ("Ser Meryn, you are no true knight"), by helping others (saving Ser Dontos from Joffrey), and in her moments of deliberate discourtesy (refusing to kneel for Tyrion at the wedding). In every little thing she does, Sansa is constantly resisting the Lannisters and those with power over her (she even directly tried to run from and refuse the marriage to Tyrion - which was sprung on her on the day of)

[Jamie Lannister]

I'm a male Sansa fan and I find her relatable and likable

That's interesting. She's a pretty great character (and one of my favoured winners besides), but she seems tailor-made to appeal more to women than men, no?

Not trying to stir the gender roles pot or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I don't see too many outspoken male Sansa fans.

[ARYa_Nym]

I wonder why Arya needs to be brought up in order to defend Sansa.

Anyways, I don't see her as an original character. She was created as a foil to Arya. Having a feminine character as a foil to a tomboy character has already been done before in fantasty by C.S. Lewis as well as other authors.

Her beauty and the beast story line has been done to death.

The hot auburn hair and redhead chick is done so much in fantasy and comic books that I roll my eyes when I read a new one.

The main character being irresistible to every character of the opposite sex they come in contact with is common for fantasy. It's annoying and unrealistic. The "warrior women" characters are not the only ones who aren't realistic. It's a fantasy series so one should expect that.

The virginity stays in tact no matter the odds is also a common trope. It's on t.v. tropes somewhere for reference.

etc....

Anyways, I don't find Sansa relatable at all.

[Florina Laufeyson]

True, although I think many character share similarities to some extent.

Ned is also reserved, standoffish, can come off cold, and an introvert. Sam is bookish and nerdy, socially awkward and teased when he first arrives at the wall. Sansa is very feminine, popular, and naturally extroverted. She loves to be in the company of other people - see how she is with Marg and cousins, I happen to despise it. So, that's what I was referring too.

Sansa had learned to shield herself that seeing her be kind of bubbly again with Marg and her cousins was kind of nice to see. But i hear ya. Ned's (and Jon's) internal style is not exactly something i relate to. Im too outspoken. Seeing Jon speak up a lot in ADWD was when i really came to love him. But his distancing himself from his friends was something i wanted to bop him over the head over. :P We dont always love EVERYTHING about our favorites. ;)

This is actually what I was trying to give an idea of in my first response. Sansa gets criticized for her inaction, unfairly imo, quite a lot, but I think if we really consider her situation and her resources there wasn't much she could do. I mean, she's a young girl with no independent financial resources, no friends, stuck in a giant castle filled with people who are constantly watching and testing her. One example I like to bring up are the Redwyne hostages - two grown men who apparently did have independent financial means and did not appear to be as closely watched as Sansa. They tried to bribe a captain to take them out of the RK, but the plan was immediately caught on Varys' and Tyrion's radars. How exactly did people expect Sansa to engineer a miraculous escape?

What she does do is fight back in the little ways (courtesy is a lady's armor - and weapon) - in her thoughts ("My brother is a traitor." "I am a Stark, my brother will give me your head on a spike."), in her moments of honesty ("Ser Meryn, you are no true knight"), by helping others (saving Ser Dontos from Joffrey), and in her moments of deliberate discourtesy (refusing to kneel for Tyrion at the wedding). In every little thing she does, Sansa is constantly resisting the Lannisters and those with power over her (she even directly tried to run from and refuse the marriage to Tyrion - which was sprung on her on the day of)

Like i said, i had a hard time with Sansa's inaction, even if she couldnt do a damn thing about it. Had i been in Sansa's shoes, id have done things differently. Like manipulating Tyrion and squeezing info out of him or cozying up to Varys or some shit. Sansa, however, wasnt raised with the smarts to think of that so i guess i can forgive her for not seeing those options. The fact that she did try with Dontos was something though. I dont fault her for that. While i think she should have fished a bit in why he was so complacent to her, due to her upbringing and age, i can see why she didnt.

Sansa's resistance to the Lannisters is what i mean by Lady Fu/Politeness Judo. Those were some badass moves, despite them being on a relatively small scale. It took me a long time to see that.

I don't see too many outspoken male Sansa fans.

You obviously havent met mladen. :P

EDIT FU:

She was created as a foil to Arya.

Maybe initially, but the reality is, NO. Sansa's arc has a lot to do with deconstructing that very idea. Sansa is her own person and exists separately from just being Arya's foil. If she was simply a foil, why did she get her own arc spanning across five books? Why is she indeed growing as a person and a character? A foil only exists to further another character's development and very rarely gets their own development. An example of a foil is Lavender Brown in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. She was brought into the fold by Rowling as a foil to Hermione's affections for Ron Weasely. Lavender does not develop as a character and is brought back into the background as her role in the story is over. Sansa is not like this at all. Sansa contrasts other characters, yes, but that is not the reason she exists.

[Kittykatknits]

That's interesting. She's a pretty great character (and one of my favoured winners besides), but she seems tailor-made to appeal more to women than men, no?

Not trying to stir the gender roles pot or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I don't see too many outspoken male Sansa fans.

There are some. Lord Bronn, Tag, E-Ro, Ragnorak, and others that I'm not thinking of. Not stirring the gender pot. :) Asking how people of different genders respond to particular characters is a good question.

[Ulrik1312]

That's interesting. She's a pretty great character (and one of my favoured winners besides), but she seems tailor-made to appeal more to women than men, no?

Not trying to stir the gender roles pot or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I don't see too many outspoken male Sansa fans.

Well I'm a male also, and I really feel related to Sansa. She and Quentyn are the characters I relate the most, the way they think and react rings true to me (except may be the dragon taming).

Even if Sansa is female, I could see were she was coming from and in general I really enjoy her chapters some of my favorites are hers.

I don't really post in the forum because Engllish is not my first language and I'm very self-concious about my writing and if I make sense.

[Lala]

That's interesting. She's a pretty great character (and one of my favoured winners besides), but she seems tailor-made to appeal more to women than men, no?

Not trying to stir the gender roles pot or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I don't see too many outspoken male Sansa fans.

I suppose Sansa is more immediately relatable to girls/women because she is very in tune with the social constructs that define "womanliness" both in Westeros and in modern society. It is much more likely that a girl/woman will have dreamed about a prince on a white horse, or loved pretty dresses and fancy parties than a guy simply because of how society still defines gender (to a certain extent). That being said, I love being a girl - for it to be socially acceptable for me to spend three hours deciding what to wear in the morning and to have ten different pairs of high-heeled boots - guys are totally missing out (but then you have ties - ties are amazing~ all those colors~ and patterns~ and I love how they arrange them in the boutiques).

On the other hand, I think Sansa is generally a difficult character for most readers to relate to because she's so nuanced. As the OP mentioned, she doesn't start the story as this otherworldly princess with dragons and a prophecy or a tomboy girl who always plays at swords with the boys - Sansa is just ... Sansa. She gossips with her girlfriends, she gets upset at her bratty baby sister, she lies, she has screwed up priorities, she's naive - and then she's put in a terrible situation that isn't normal or everyday at all, and careful readers begin to realize that, yes, Sansa is just another girl, but she has strength. And I think for a few of us (or at least myself), that strength is empowering - Sansa shows us that you don't need a sword (or a Needle) or dragons or an army or super powers to be strong. You can simply be a decent human being who continues to embrace decent human values and your own identity in the face of those who would rob you of them. Sansa may be gorgeous and high-born, but at her core, Sansa is just another human being. She doesn't meet a Faceless Man and go off on a journey to become a mystical assassin. She doesn't get dragons. Even her dire-wolf is dead. Yet despite all of these odds (and Sansa faces very steep odds in fantasyland) Sansa still manages to be strong and remain a daughter of Winterfell.

It just takes more careful reading and critical analysis to see Sansa's strength sometimes - she doesn't run around playing hero and shouting "I have dragons!" or "I have supahpowahz!" or "I'm a BAMF!" - she expresses the strength in small acts of rebellion, in these fundamentally normal, human ways :)

[Kittykatknits]

Sansa had learned to shield herself that seeing her be kind of bubbly again with Marg and her cousins was kind of nice to see. But i hear ya. Ned's (and Jon's) internal style is not exactly something i relate to. Im too outspoken. Seeing Jon speak up a lot in ADWD was when i really came to love him. But his distancing himself from his friends was something i wanted to bop him over the head over. :P We dont always love EVERYTHING about our favorites. ;)

Yes, agree. I didn't mean to imply that Sansa shouldn't have enjoyed that time with Marg. I was happy for her too as that is something she would enjoy and it had been denied to her for a long time. But, being out all day and surrounded with others like that is pure torture. The internal style of Jon is actually what I most identify and like about him. :) It's familiar to me.

[Burdette]

I am a male, and I don't really like Sansa so far, but I believe she IS a great character.

She hasn't done anything immoral or cruel, and has slowly transformed from a delusional little girl to a smart young woman. Until she does something that I really love though, I wont really like her all that much, but she is still a great character.

[E-Ro]

There are some. Lord Bronn, Tag, E-Ro, Ragnorak, and others that I'm not thinking of. Not stirring the gender pot. :) Asking how people of different genders respond to particular characters is a good question.

Dammit K3, you blew my cover!

[Lala]

Dammit K3, you blew my cover!

Welcome to the sisterhood :grouphug:

[Kittykatknits]

Dammit K3, you blew my cover!

Oops! Dammit, well then I guess I was lying then. :)

[Florina Laufeyson]

Yes, agree. I didn't mean to imply that Sansa shouldn't have enjoyed that time with Marg. I was happy for her too as that is something she would enjoy and it had been denied to her for a long time. But, being out all day and surrounded with others like that is pure torture. The internal style of Jon is actually what I most identify and like about him. :) It's familiar to me.

Hehe, we must be opposites in that regard. My attraction to Arya was because she acted so much like i would. ESPECIALLY at that age. All mouth and chin kicking. :P

Dammit K3, you blew my cover!

LMAO!

[N/A]

well, i don't want to argue this from a story stand because i get to fierce in my arguments and start to netpick, instead I'll tell you why i love her on a personal note as a man .

i have done some things in my young life on this earth,terrible things , things that i regret and since i'm so young i had lost my purity and innocence early and had to become rather cold blooded , i know how to mask it well, but at night when there is no one to mask it from i realise that i cannot mask it from myself and sansa reminds me of what innocence is and what it means to be pure and go through terrible things but keep yourself together , she reminds me that just because it's cloudy it doesn't mean that there is no sun .

sorry for the long post and extra info

[ARYa_Nym]

A girl can be feminine and still not find Sansa relatable. There are many different types of girls. I actually find Margaery likeable but not Sansa although I find neither relatable. The girls I would find relatable aren't even in the series. The closest would possibly be Sarella but even she is not right.

Of course I don't need to find a character relatable or realistic to like them especially in a fantasy series.

[Jon of the Dead]

There are some. Lord Bronn, Tag, E-Ro, Ragnorak, and others that I'm not thinking of. Not stirring the gender pot. :) Asking how people of different genders respond to particular characters is a good question.

I've been meaning to start a thread on this but I didn't know if people would find it offensive or sexist somehow :dunno:

I'm a dude and Sansa is my 5th favorite character. I don't really have anything new to say, you all have already described Sansa's awesomeness: her endurance, her realism, her little acts of rebellion.

Something I've noticed when people compare Sansa and Arya is that they don't realize that Arya is as naive as Sansa in some ways. I don't have the exact quote now, but in aCoK, when Yoren considers going to Harrenhal, Arya thinks something like "There's knights in Harrenhal, and knights are supposed to protect people and keep you safe". I think it's interesting that Sandor is the one who shatters both girls' illusions about knighthood and makes them both more cynical.

Also, I like how Arya and Sansa are placed in situations especially suited for their own strenghts. Sansa wouldn't have lasted a day on the kingsroad, but Joffrey would've killed Arya for being unable to control herself in court.

[TalalOfDorne]

There are some. Lord Bronn, Tag, E-Ro, Ragnorak, and others that I'm not thinking of. Not stirring the gender pot. :) Asking how people of different genders respond to particular characters is a good question.

You can add me to the list. Though Im not sure if Im as big of a fan as the ones you mentioned, or Mladen. He's one of the biggest Sansa fans Ive ever encountered.

[E-Ro]

Oops! Dammit, well then I guess I was lying then. :)

lol, nah its cool. Sansa is pretty great, i shouldn't keep hiding my feelings on the matter.

[ARYa_Nym]

I've been meaning to start a thread on this but I didn't know if people would find it offensive or sexist somehow :dunno:

I'm a dude and Sansa is my 5th favorite character. I don't really have anything new to say, you all have already described Sansa's awesomeness: her endurance, her realism, her little acts of rebellion.

Something I've noticed when people compare Sansa and Arya is that they don't realize that Arya is as naive as Sansa in some ways. I don't have the exact quote now, but in aCoK, when Yoren considers going to Harrenhal, Arya thinks something like "There's knights in Harrenhal, and knights are supposed to protect people and keep you safe". I think it's interesting that Sandor is the one who shatters both girls' illusions about knighthood and makes them both more cynical.

Also, I like how Arya and Sansa are placed in situations especially suited for their own strenghts. Sansa wouldn't have lasted a day on the kingsroad, but Joffrey would've killed Arya for being unable to control herself in court.

It's Harrenhal that shatters Arya's ideals on knights not Sandor. She already killed a knight before she got to him.

Although she already was skeptical when Meryn Trant came to take her. She said that Jamie was in the KG and he's an oathbreaker so being a member of the KG doesn't mean much.

Sandor actually protected Sansa from doing the very thing that many think Arya would have done and that is trying to kill Joffrey.