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Unifying theory of TPTWP and AAR?


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#1 Acky Deshwanee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:12 AM

Hi all,

Is there a theory that anyone has that unfies these multiple prophecies or concepts..

- The Prince Who Was Promised
- Azor Azhai Reborn
- The Dragon With Three Heads
- "Mother of Dragons... Child of Three"

I always wondered why the Undying called her Child of Three? Perhaps this references the Three Headed Dragon?

Thanks!

Acky D x

#2 DDDUnit

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:18 AM

As for the dragon with three heads and the Child of Three, Dany is surrounded by concepts of three. A dragon must have three heads. She births three dragons. She must endure three betrayals. As for the other theories, it just depends how much you want to read into all of the theories and try and tie them together on your own.

#3 mighty potato

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:20 AM

have you checked the compendium ?

#4 King of Winters

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:20 AM

Well the prophecies of AAR, TPTWP and LH story are about the same person in the Long Night, but from different cultures. AAR is from Asshai; and made from R'hllor followers, TPTWP is possibly made from Valyrians and LH is from the First Men.
The 3Headed Dragon is one person with three hypostatises, as it's one dragon with three heads, so I think it's Jon; Jon Snow, Jon Stark, Jon Targaryen, AAR/TPTWP/LH etc.

Dany might be called the child of three because she's the third child of Aerys and Rhaella.

#5 Pikachu101

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:46 AM

Am I the only one who wants them to be man made myths with no credibility?

I honestly can't stand the idea of there being one hero who saves the day /stillsick.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stillsick:' />

#6 koststerg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:16 AM

Well the prophecies of AAR, TPTWP and LH story are about the same person in the Long Night, but from different cultures. AAR is from Asshai; and made from R'hllor followers, TPTWP is possibly made from Valyrians and LH is from the First Men.


Dany might be called the child of three because she's the third child of Aerys and Rhaella.


The LH is a story from the past (no evidence of prophecy here)

The AA is a story from the past (probably refering to the same person as the LH) and at the same time a prophecy for someone in the future, the AA reborn

The PtwP (from the very little things that we know eventhough it is the most resent of the 3) is not a story from the past (so it doesn't refer to the old long night). It is just a prophecy for someone in the future. Some of the characters in the book (Melisandre and Aemon) believe it is the same with AA reborn (many in the forums as well) but I think that the possibility of two different persons is still very open.

The 3Headed Dragon can be either a part of the PtwP prophecy or an interpretation of that prophecy by Raegar (who obviusly knows it). It can refer to 3 persons or to 1 person with 3 sides as you say (although why then George said that not all of the 3 persons have to be Targareyns?)

Mother of Dragons is not a prophecy but a title definitely refering to Dany. Since she has 3 of them there will be 2 more riders which links it to what Raegar knows or presumes.

#7 Acky Deshwanee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:17 AM

Well the prophecies of AAR, TPTWP and LH story are about the same person in the Long Night, but from different cultures. AAR is from Asshai; and made from R'hllor followers, TPTWP is possibly made from Valyrians and LH is from the First Men.
The 3Headed Dragon is one person with three hypostatises, as it's one dragon with three heads, so I think it's Jon; Jon Snow, Jon Stark, Jon Targaryen, AAR/TPTWP/LH etc.

Dany might be called the child of three because she's the third child of Aerys and Rhaella.


Hi - who is LH?

Also who is STMTW?

Acky D x

#8 The Dornishman's Wife

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:34 AM

Hi - who is LH?

Also who is STMTW?

Acky D x


Hi Acky,

the LH stands for the "Last Hero", a human hero from a story Old Nan tells to Bran about the Long Night and the fight against the Others. The LH supposedly sought out the Children of the Forest and with their help prevailed against the Others. We don't know much of the story, because Old Nan was interrupted when telling it.

STMTW stands for the "Stallion that mounts the World". The crones in Vaes Dothrak prophesied that Dany's child Rhaego would unify all the khallasars and bring death and destruction to the whole world (for Dothraki, that's something to be immensely proud about apparently).

Dany's child died in the womb to keep Drogo alive, but some people speculate that Dany or the dragon Drogo could become the STMTW instead. Others believe that it either means that the crones were full of shit or that it means that prophecies are either fallible or can be actively averted.

Edited by The Dornishman's Wife, 31 July 2013 - 06:38 AM.


#9 Frozentree

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:59 AM

AAR and PtWP must be the same, it would be silly if they were two. Would they make a superhero team or something?

I don't understand why are people talking about "the three headed dragon" as if it were a prophecy, even if we say that the Targs chose their sigil according to some legend, we have no clue what would be the dragon's supposed role or anything. All we know is that a Three-headed dragon is figuring there. It is fan-made red herring IMO.

Edited by Frozentree, 31 July 2013 - 06:59 AM.


#10 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:03 AM

Well the prophecies of AAR, TPTWP and LH story are about the same person in the Long Night, but from different cultures. AAR is from Asshai; and made from R'hllor followers, TPTWP is possibly made from Valyrians and LH is from the First Men.
The 3Headed Dragon is one person with three hypostatises, as it's one dragon with three heads, so I think it's Jon; Jon Snow, Jon Stark, Jon Targaryen, AAR/TPTWP/LH etc.

Dany might be called the child of three because she's the third child of Aerys and Rhaella.

pretty much this /agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' /> Jon Snow is the 3headed dragon

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 31 July 2013 - 09:22 AM.


#11 King of Winters

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

The PtwP (from the very little things that we know eventhough it is the most resent of the 3) is not a story from the past (so it doesn't refer to the old long night). It is just a prophecy for someone in the future. Some of the characters in the book (Melisandre and Aemon) believe it is the same with AA reborn (many in the forums as well) but I think that the possibility of two different persons is still very open.

I think TPTWP prophecy could be Valyrian based as Aemon, Rhaegar and Egg (Aegon V) were all interested in the prophecy and two try and fulfil it, and one helps the other understand it. Egg by marrying his two grandchildren (Aerys and Rhaella) after the Woods Witch said that TPTWP would come from there line, and Rhagear thought he was TPTWP at one time, after reading something (Signs and Prophecies, I think by his ancestor) and Aemon thought he could be The Prince before Aegon was born and Rhaegar then thought it was his son.
Up until Aemon's conversation with Mels breifly about AAR and TPTWP at The Wall, only Targs have mentioned TPTWP. So I think that they have known about the prophecy because its origins lie in Ancient Valyria.

#12 Acky Deshwanee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:42 AM

Hi Acky,

the LH stands for the "Last Hero", a human hero from a story Old Nan tells to Bran about the Long Night and the fight against the Others. The LH supposedly sought out the Children of the Forest and with their help prevailed against the Others. We don't know much of the story, because Old Nan was interrupted when telling it.

STMTW stands for the "Stallion that mounts the World". The crones in Vaes Dothrak prophesied that Dany's child Rhaego would unify all the khallasars and bring death and destruction to the whole world (for Dothraki, that's something to be immensely proud about apparently).

Dany's child died in the womb to keep Drogo alive, but some people speculate that Dany or the dragon Drogo could become the STMTW instead. Others believe that it either means that the crones were full of shit or that it means that prophecies are either fallible or can be actively averted.


So useful for me! Thanks! x

#13 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

The dragon has 3 heads is simply 3 dragon riders like aegon and his sisters, Dany in relation to 3 I think means she will be a rider with 2 other people

#14 koststerg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

I think TPTWP prophecy could be Valyrian
Up until Aemon's conversation with Mels breifly about AAR and TPTWP at The Wall, only Targs have mentioned TPTWP. So I think that they have known about the prophecy because its origins lie in Ancient Valyria.


I think that there is a good possibility that the original PtwP prophecy was made by Daenys the dreamer the daughter of Aenys that moved the Family out of Valyria to Dragonstone just before the Doom and basically saved them (150 years before the Conquest more or less). We know that she predicted the Doom and I think she must also have said why they must be saved: because a prince will be born from them that is important.
Notice that when Aemon wants to refresh his memory on the two prophecies he asks from Sam two books. The Jade Compedium (which comes from the East and probably has the original - or close enough - script of the AA prophecy) and the "from downfall to apotheosis" which refers to the early Targaryens and must have the original script of the PtwP prophecy. If the PtwP was more ancient and more widespread in Valyrians then it should be known in Volantis also but the prophesy is clearly a Targaryen thing as you also point out.

#15 King of Winters

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

I think that there is a good possibility that the original PtwP prophecy was made by Daenys the dreamer the daughter of Aenys that moved the Family out of Valyria to Dragonstone just before the Doom and basically saved them (150 years before the Conquest more or less). We know that she predicted the Doom and I think she must also have said why they must be saved: because a prince will be born from them that is important.
Notice that when Aemon wants to refresh his memory on the two prophecies he asks from Sam two books. The Jade Compedium (which comes from the East and probably has the original - or close enough - script of the AA prophecy) and the "from downfall to apotheosis" which refers to the early Targaryens and must have the original script of the PtwP prophecy. If the PtwP was more ancient and more widespread in Valyrians then it should be known in Volantis also but the prophesy is clearly a Targaryen thing as you also point out.

That's the ancestor I was talking about, just forgot her name.
Three pages of Signs and Portents are in the Book of Lost Books, written by Marwyn, so it think we'll learn more about the prophecies in TWOW through Sam.

#16 Logen

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

I'm on the side that believes that TPTWP and AA are supposed to be the same person. I also think that person will be one of the 3 heads of the dragon. As far as who the heads will be, there are a lot of theories out there, and I can't even begin to guess which one of them is correct, if any of them are. But I do have one of my own that occured to me for the first time not long ago. There are only 3 characters that I can think of who's mothers died during childbirth, and all three of them could potentially have Targaryen blood. Dany is obviously a Targ, and her mother died while giving birth to her. Jon is considered by many to be a Targ/Stark, and if R+L=J is true, his mother died during childbirth too. And some people think Tyrion may have been fathered by the Mad King, which would make him a Targ/Lannister. And of course, his mother died during childbirth as well. I'm wondering if there is any significance to that, and if they might be the three heads. That being said, I do kind of hate the "Everyone is a secret Targ" idea, so I hope this isn't the case.

#17 jenerationx

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

Am I the only one who wants them to be man made myths with no credibility?

I honestly can't stand the idea of there being one hero who saves the day /stillsick.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stillsick:' />


No matter who it is, it's not going to be one hero who saves the day. There might be one person who unifies them, but of course it won't just be them single handedly defeating the Others. Why is there such an issue with there being that one rallying person? Harry Potter was the "hero" of the HP series, but no way did he do that alone. And Azor Ahai won't do it alone either, but s/he could still be the unifier. Why does there have to be no one symbolic figure?

#18 aceluby

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:09 PM

Never heard dying in childbirth mentioned before... clever.

#19 aceluby

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:11 PM

No matter who it is, it's not going to be one hero who saves the day. There might be one person who unifies them, but of course it won't just be them single handedly defeating the Others. Why is there such an issue with there being that one rallying person? Harry Potter was the "hero" of the HP series, but no way did he do that alone. And Azor Ahai won't do it alone either, but s/he could still be the unifier. Why does there have to be no one symbolic figure?


Was he really though? I think the Harry Potter prophecy is a good example of leaving the 'who' a question, even at the end. Harry did a lot, sure, but who was leading the rebels? Who killed the snake? Who was born just days apart? It's still a question that can be debated which is how prophecies should work. I'd love to see at least one of the prophecies end up that way.

#20 Muggle

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

I think, as does many others

The Last Hero
The Prince That was Promised
The Stallion That Mounts the World,
Azor Aahi Reborn

Are all the same person

I think its Jon also, But i dont think Jon will win the Iron Throne and sit there