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Bran and Jaime - Do people expect Bran the Saint now, or is he allowed to have hard feelings?


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#1 Free Northman

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:37 AM

Bran and Jaime have some very significant unfinished business with one another. I'm interested in how this will play out.

I get the sense that many people by default seem to assume that Bran's "enlightenment" will lead him to become some Yoda-like Buddha figure, who transcends normal human desires like vengeance, justice for past wrongs, bitterness at enemies of his House etc.

At the same time, ironically, others are quick to declare that the Children are leading Bran down a dark path, and that he might turn into evil Bran now.

Personally, I find neither of the two extremes to be appealing, or supported by the text.

I think Bran is ultimately a hero on the side of good, but at the same time, I don't see a prerequisite for his powers to be associated with dispassionate enlightenment and a setting aside of his human feelings. In short, I expect Bran to become VERY powerful, but at the same time this by no means stops him from holding grudges, like the grudge against the guy that crippled him for life.

So, once Bran is an allpowerful greenseer, is he going to start subjecting Jaime Lannister to some of the laws of nature? Remember, the Children have no problem with blood sacrifice and other seemingly cruel practices. Their gods are the Old Gods of the First Men, who hold vengeance and retribution sacred.

I expect to see Bran get some of his own back against Jaime, while still using Jaime to the advantage of his overall cause.

What's the opinion of the board?

#2 Blede

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:41 AM

It depends on the extent of his (future) greenseeing powers. If he will be so all-seeing as Bloodraven seemingly intended, he may become aware of his resemption arc, and forgive him. Or not. It's hard to tell right now.

#3 ShadowCat Rivers

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:42 AM

I agree with your feelings on this, but I have no clue what to excpect for Bran's future story (other than that he'll play a huge part in the war against the Others).

#4 Dan slayer of hot pies

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:43 AM

but does Bran even remember jamie pushing him out the window?

#5 Frozentree

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

Looking at cultures which descended from the first men but did not accept the children's religion (e.g. Ironmen) and the children themselves, the stuff about vengeance is what first men brought with them and the children do not hold it. They are sad when wronged, not wroth, as Bran noted. Of course, Bran is a human and can hold vengeful feelings, I just wanted to dismiss the possibility the children, or the old gods, will support him in it.

I think he will hold grudge against Jaime, he did more than just throw him out of window, he also took part in destroying his family. Whether or not he will have opportunity to enact the vengeance, or whether or not he will forgive him, I have no clue.

#6 chrisdaw

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:52 AM

It's already his character, there's perhaps no gentler soul in the whole series than Bran, Missandei is the only other that comes to mind. What Jaime and Theon did to him was extreme but I doubt he has the capacity to hold real grudges and back them with acts of revenge. I expect he is written this way because of all the characters he'll be the one to have to make the hardest sacrifices for the greatest good, and being as gentle as he is it will be all the more heartbreaking.

#7 David Selig

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:54 AM

UnCat would hang Jaime soon so this is all academic.

#8 VaramyrSixchins

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:55 AM

First, he'd have to come to grips & acknowledge what happened on a conscious level, which he has yet to do. IIRC, there was a sudden realization and insight on his part at the close of one of the Clash chapters, when the Cerwyn boy says something that jogs his memory, but in subsequent chapters, he seems to repress it further. To my recollection, he has yet to fully, consciously remember exactly what occurred, let alone that Jaime was responsible. It's something I remember waiting for during Clash on my very first read, lol.

Contrast that w Theon, whom he certainty remembers as a source of trauma. His interactions w Theon during his heart tree prayers suggest Bran's still very much in the throes of sorrow & anguish. However that arc turns out w regard to how Bran's actions influence Theon's fate is probably a good indicator of what he'll ultimately do w Jaime.

#9 chrisdaw

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:59 AM

but does Bran even remember jamie pushing him out the window?


BR told him to repress the memory when it was returning and I think he has been subconsciously doing so ever since. It scared him when he began to remember, but it's there, but also he may simply see the scene again with his gift.

I think it's part of his arc to face it, as he keeps remembering Robb's words, he's almost a man grown now and must "stop playing the boy". He'll stop playing the boy when he faces up to what he saw and what Jaime did to him.

#10 ReekLeek

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:24 AM

I agree with your feelings on this, but I have no clue what to excpect for Bran's future story (other than that he'll play a huge part in the war against the Others).

Yes. I have no idea what is coming in brans story but I dont see him turning into an evil character. I think there's a chance he will take over for BR but idk. I am excited to read his chapters though because there's so much juicy stuff martin can reveal through bran

#11 Mad Monkey

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:28 AM

There was a scene where someone (I think it was Cerwyn) says the word "Kingslayer" and Bran basically has a heart attack; later, when he goes to sleep, he has an incredibly vivid nightmare where Jaime attacks and kills him.

The boy has major PTSD over him; I think if he had to see Jaime again it would extremely traumatizing and something that he would have to get over.

#12 aceluby

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:30 AM

If he does find out he will have to wrestle w/ the question of whether or not he would even have his power if Jaime didn't push him...

#13 Thorion2

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

I might be mistaken, but Bran has the power to witness past events. Isn't there a part where he sees his father in the Godswood? If so, eventually he will call up the event of his fall.

I don't believe Bran is gentle. He just suppresses his anger. This is evident by the Shaggydog's attacks. His direwolf acts on the emotions that Bran doesn't acknowledge.

#14 Frozentree

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

I might be mistaken, but Bran has the power to witness past events. Isn't there a part where he sees his father in the Godswood? If so, eventually he will call up the event of his fall.

I don't believe Bran is gentle. He just suppresses his anger. This is evident by the Shaggydog's attacks. His direwolf acts on the emotions that Bran doesn't acknowledge.

Shaggydog is Rickon's direwolf, Summer is Bran's and I haven't noticed similar behavior.

#15 Roose The Weddingcrasher

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

nevermind

Edited by Roose The Weddingcrasher, 31 July 2013 - 09:08 AM.


#16 Thorion2

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:10 AM

Shaggydog is Rickon's direwolf, Summer is Bran's and I haven't noticed similar behavior.


Crap. Your right. Haven't had my coffee yet. Sorry.

#17 Cruella

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:14 AM

Perhaps Bran needs to acknowledge and accept (I don't mean as in "forgive") what happened to reach new level. Afterall, it's hard to imagine highly spiritual and aware being with repressed memories and undealt-with psychological trauma, seems like they'd have to deal with it to progress.

Personally, I love Jaime as a character but won't think any less of Bran if he takes over his body or something. He has every right in this case.

#18 silentwanderer

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:25 AM

What's the opinion of the board?


Speaking only for myself, my opinion would be that anyone who has read his POVs knows that Bran doesn't have a single vengeful bone in his body, just look at his interaction with Osha and Theon, read his thoughts after he escapes with Jojen and Meera, or his attitude towards the Others.

That's not the Children of the Foresrt, that's all Bran in there: what he does, how he thinks, the way he reacts it would be out of character for him to seek vengance or to take someone's life, whether its the man that destroyed his home (Theon), the wildling that held a knife at his throat (Osha) or even the men that tried to kill him (the Lannisters).

Edited by silentwanderer, 31 July 2013 - 09:27 AM.


#19 Aderyn the Sly

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:13 AM

If Bran unrepresses his memories of what happened, I think he will be torn. Yes, they took his legs and any hope of becoming a knight but because of the fall and the following coma, the three eyed crow was able to reach out to him and open his third eye and waken his Greenseer powers. Brans going to weigh the two, I think, and realise that he prefers the path he is on now. I know some will argue that even without the fall that BR was watching Bran from the beginning and would have gone to him eventually, but if Bran didn't fall his father would have taken him to King's Landing when he left Winterfell in GoT, and who knows what would have happened to him. Also, of all the characters we meet, Bran seems like the least vengeful, and the one who would rather make peace than get revenge.

#20 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:22 AM

If Bran unrepresses his memories of what happened, I think he will be torn. Yes, they took his legs and any hope of becoming a knight but because of the fall and the following coma, the three eyed crow was able to reach out to him and open his third eye and waken his Greenseer powers. Brans going to weigh the two, I think, and realise that he prefers the path he is on now. I know some will argue that even without the fall that BR was watching Bran from the beginning and would have gone to him eventually, but if Bran didn't fall his father would have taken him to King's Landing when he left Winterfell in GoT, and who knows what would have happened to him. Also, of all the characters we meet, Bran seems like the least vengeful, and the one who would rather make peace than get revenge.

In the Game of Thrones you either win or you die.