Jump to content

If Rhaegar won and Lyanna survived, would Dorne be threatened, and would they justified in feeling that way?


The Frosted King

Recommended Posts

Hard to say, presumably either through common Westerosi primogeniture or Dornish inheritance - either of Elia's children - Rhaenys or Aegon - would have been Rhaegar's heir and the next King or Queen of Westeros.

So from that end, I don't see where Dorne would have been necessarily threatened by the union...

Ticked off, no doubt. And you don't want to tick off Dorne. Because when they are pissed off they will.... wait. And plot long-winded schemes. That Fail. And then plot a few more. And then rush of and do something rash. And get more pissed off. And watch kids swim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to.think this would be different than just waiting and planning. Dorne will be mad that is a given. Someone's child will probably have an accident. I lean more toward Lyannas child having an accident. Oberyn might not want to kill a child, but I am sure one of the sand snakes probably wouldn't mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Rheagar survived and Lyanna lived, the sack of Kings Landing would not have happened. Ned would be dead by execution or sent to the wall with Benjen (he may have already went to the wall after Harrenal Tourney) and Lyanna would have inherited the North (I think this was Rheagar and his mad Daddy's intention) so it would have passed to their little "dragon hatchling". I honestly do not think Rheagaaaaaaah gave a shit about Lyanna's family and seemed remorsless for the terribly tragedies that befell them after they ran off together.

As for Dorne, they still had Aegon, a son of a princess of Dorne as the future King so they would have went along but probably never trusted Lyanna or her child/Jon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if Rhaegars plan was to have two wives, I doubt it would work out as he planned. There would be divided factions at court. The children would also be divided to.most likely. After Rhaegar bites the big one, there would be a second dance of dragons just without the dragons probably. It was never gonna be a one big happy family thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm of the opinion that Elia was not opposed to Rhaegar having another child after she was no longer safely able to have children. In fact, I think she suggested her best friend, Ashara Dayne. However, Ashara was impregnated and had a miscarriage by another man, and Rhaegar decided to search out another person to give birth to the 3rd head of the dragon. Rhaegar went to Lyanna, who he felt an attraction for and who he respected after he discovered she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. So, I think Elia may have been okay with Rhaegar taking a second wife.

With Elia's children as heirs, Elia helping to smooth things over with her family, Rhaegar being so popular, and maybe with him adding a few Martell's to his council, I think Dorne would accept the situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Robert had died would Ned stop the fighting? Would the Mad King let them live? No either way Lyanna's family would be fucked which always makes me doubt the whole Lyanna ran off theory. Either way Rhaegar's plan was one of the most idiotic plans in history. It is so irresponsible towards his own family and the rest of the kingdom that always made me dislike him. As for Dorne, they could not do anything. One kingdom against the rest, especially when Elia would be used as a hostage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would have been an interesting outcome! I think a lot of how Dorne would behave would depend on Elia. If she was fully on board with this and really willing to try and make it work, she probably could have persuaded her brothers to go with the flow. It would also help if the succession was clearly and publicly defined; though this wouldn't necessarily be a guarantee of anything, it couldn't hurt. Personally though, the whole thing would probably a big old mess. I think the person who would have the hardest time of it would be Lyanna. She didn't even want to have to deal with all the hoopla that goes along with being the wife of a high lord, now she's stuck in the capital with the whole kingdom watching her as she shares her husband with his first wife. Probably everyone would be sympathetic to Elia's plight, but rightly or wrongly, Lyanna would probably be seen as some horrible seductress who ran off with a married man, especially by people who lost loved ones in the rebellion. She'd probably have to put up with no end of snickering and snipes, the poor girl would be miserable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would have been an interesting outcome! I think a lot of how Dorne would behave would depend on Elia. If she was fully on board with this and really willing to try and make it work, she probably could have persuaded her brothers to go with the flow. It would also help if the succession was clearly and publicly defined; though this wouldn't necessarily be a guarantee of anything, it couldn't hurt. Personally though, the whole thing would probably a big old mess. I think the person who would have the hardest time of it would be Lyanna. She didn't even want to have to deal with all the hoopla that goes along with being the wife of a high lord, now she's stuck in the capital with the whole kingdom watching her as she shares her husband with his first wife. Probably everyone would be sympathetic to Elia's plight, but rightly or wrongly, Lyanna would probably be seen as some horrible seductress who ran off with a married man, especially by people who lost loved ones in the rebellion. She'd probably have to put up with no end of snickering and snipes, the poor girl would be miserable.

Lyanna wouldn't be seen as anything, thats exactly what she did. And I doubt Elia would be ok with public humiliation and being used as a hostage for Martell troops for the rebellion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering the Dornish view on the whole paramour thing I can't see them being all that upset, unless they're the do as I say not as I do type. After rereading the Dornish chapters recently I find it kind of odd that no one ever suggests that Elia may have been more like Oberyn and had a more relaxed view on marriage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would not work.

There would be no good outcome if Rhaegar actually married Lyanna and planned to take her to KL, especially because I think she would never live happily with him knowing about what happened to her family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering the Dornish view on the whole paramour thing I can't see them being all that upset, unless they're the do as I say not as I do type. After rereading the Dornish chapters recently I find it kind of odd that no one ever suggests that Elia may have been more like Oberyn and had a more relaxed view on marriage.

Lyanna wouldn't be a paramour. She would be a second wife with the same rights as Elia, also meaning her kids would be in the line of succession

Blackfyre Rebellion 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lyanna wouldn't be a paramour. She would be a second wife with the same rights as Elia, also meaning her kids would be in the line of succession

Blackfyre Rebellion 2

I never believed they were married to begin with, R+L anyway, I think Rhaegar thought he could save two doomed houses by merging the blood, law would have played no part in it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never believed they were married to begin with, R+L anyway, I think Rhaegar thought he could save two doomed houses by merging the blood, law would have played no part in it.

So he would have a bastard son and take the daughter of one of the most powerful houses to be his mistress?

That would never work

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never believed they were married to begin with, R+L anyway, I think Rhaegar thought he could save two doomed houses by merging the blood, law would have played no part in it.

Although if like me you believe that Lyanna had wildling blood, then maybe the act of being 'kidnapped' in itself formed part of a marriage ritual... then there is of course the possibility of a wedding vows spoken in front of a heart tree, potentially the one on God's Eye. With the benefit of being stored in the Weirnet Cached search functionality for Bran to retrieve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lyanna wouldn't be a paramour. She would be a second wife with the same rights as Elia, also meaning her kids would be in the line of succession

Blackfyre Rebellion 2

Only if Lil' Jon is declared Rhaegar's direct successor. The Dornish kids are still next in the line of succession, after Rhaegar, and the marriage with Elia is presumably still intact and fine. There might be more of a stir if the Dornish promote Queen Rhaenys over King Aegon after Rhaegar's death, but I don't think they'd do that. If something happened to the two, then it'd be a tragedy that the Martells will rue over and seek revenge on. But not on the R+L baby, since he (likely) had nothing to do with it, and his conception is the result not of pushing Elia aside, but rather just an extra heir created after Elia became barren.

It's the people post-Jon in the Line of Succession we'd have to worry about. Viserys and Daenarys and any children they may have in this alternate timeline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So he would have a bastard son and take the daughter of one of the most powerful houses to be his mistress?

That would never work

Like I said law played no part in it. I think what Rhaegar found in his books all those years ago was a pattern, a cycle of conflict between ice and fire and in an attempt to stop it he tried to merge the two.

Although if like me you believe that Lyanna had wildling blood, then maybe the act of being 'kidnapped' in itself formed part of a marriage ritual... then there is of course the possibility of a wedding vows spoken in front of a heart tree, potentially the one on God's Eye. With the benefit of being stored in the Weirnet Cached search functionality for Bran to retrieve.

I don't think they were married at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the OP:

No, why would they? At least in any major way.

Elia is still first wife, Aegon is still heir to the throne.

Lyanna wouldn't be a paramour. She would be a second wife with the same rights as Elia, also meaning her kids would be in the line of succession

Blackfyre Rebellion 2

Err, no. Blackfyre rebellion was a lot more complicated than that to do with legitimised bastards and supposedly false heirs. There are no similarly complicating issues here. Aegon is first legit son and Heir, Jon is second legit son and Aegon's heir until Aegon has a son.

Having half-brothers from different mothers does not create inherent succession problems in itself.

And heck, look at the Baratheons. They are all full brothers, yet Renly still tried to usurp Stannis' place. This shit can hapen in any circumstances. But at the same time you can't afford to have only one heir in case he doesn't make it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...