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Tyrion's prowess in battle is one of the more ridiculous things in all of ASOIAF


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#1 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:06 PM

Seriously it requires a bigger suspension of disbelief then the dragons or the Others. It started out innocently enough with him defeating one of the mountain clansmen in AGOT, okay whatever he got lucky. Then the Green fork happens and I'm starting to feel like this is a little silly what with his arm shattered by a mace yet hes still fighting. But now I'm rereading ACOK and his sortie against the gates is just borderline absurd. Here's a character about 4 feet tall, who has trouble walking, with no battle experience and hardly any training, yet he's mowing down soldiers like it's fucking dynasty warriors. I just....where did this come? Is Tyrion just such an important character that he needed to live through this battle no matter what? If so he just should have commanded from the rear. I just can't take these passages very seriously.

#2 E-Ro

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:09 PM

Agreed. Tyrions height would be a huge disadvantage in any fight, his lack of training an even bigger disadvantage. then add to that he cant even walk up stairs without back pain, and well, you got yourself a plot hole.

#3 RenlyIsNotRight

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM

Actually iirc, GRRM even admitted he finds Tyrion being so capable in Blackwater a bit silly in retrospect, and actually preferred the shows portrayal of him as a clumsy fighter to his own. I don't have the interview handy, but I'm pretty sure its been pointed out here before that he's said that.

Of course, without Tyrion our only other POV of the actual battle is Davos, who only sees the naval front of the battle and becomes a casualty to early on for us to really get a good luck at the whole thing, so Tyrions POV in the battle was essential. But yeah, it would have been more believable if he had commanded from the rear, or even just sort of clumsily got lucky a few times like he did on the show version of Blackwater.

#4 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:13 PM

Seriously even dismounted he's cutting down soldiers like weeds. He's 4 foot tall, covered in armor, clumsy as can be,he should have died in the fighting half a hundred times. His participation in the battle of the blackwater requires a serious suspension of disbelief.

#5 Trinton07

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:14 PM

Why wouldn't Tryion have training. I mean maybe I missed someone saying he never had any training, I always assumed he was good in battle cuz Tywin trained him as a kid like he probably did with Jamie.

#6 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:15 PM

Actually iirc, GRRM even admitted he finds Tyrion being so capable in Blackwater a bit silly in retrospect, and actually preferred the shows portrayal of him as a clumsy fighter to his own. I don't have the interview handy, but I'm pretty sure its been pointed out here before that he's said that.

Of course, without Tyrion our only other POV of the actual battle is Davos, who only sees the naval front of the battle and becomes a casualty to early on for us to really get a good luck at the whole thing, so Tyrions POV in the battle was essential. But yeah, it would have been more believable if he had commanded from the rear, or even just sort of clumsily got lucky a few times like he did on the show version of Blackwater.


hahah yeah im fine with tyrion getting a lucky blow here or there but ive got it right in front of me..."Men came at him. Some he killed, some he wounded, and some went away" Tyrion comes across like the second coming of arthur fucking dayne! His house words must be "Cant touch this!" apparently. Somehow he's a murder death machine on a flaming, lurching, banked enemy ship, he doesnt even have the advantage of his own terrain or defenses! Man what was GRRM thinking here.

#7 Bittertea

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:20 PM

I'm surpised he wasn't crushed beneath someone's foot at the Blackwater. Like sheesh, sure he's waving his little axe around but someone's eventually going to see him and recongize him, aside from plot armour how did he survive, especially after being slashed in the face and left as an open target?

#8 I know I know

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:21 PM

Keep in mind that, during his initial meeting with Jon, Tyrion does a summersault when jumping down from a wall higher than Jons head, landing elegantly on his feet.

Tyrion is not clumsy. That might not be the way dwarves typically are in the real world, but IMHO he's to be thought of as a very, very unusual dwarf - more like a stocky child acrobat.

#9 King Of The Slums

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:24 PM

The ones he killed didn't have good armour and weapons, his Lannister steel gave him a massive advantage.

#10 Newstar

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:32 PM

I kind of loved it when TV Tyrion got accidentally knocked out in the show version of the Battle of the Green Fork all of 30 seconds into the fighting. It was done for practical reasons, in part (to avoid showing an expensive battle), but it actually worked with Tyrion.

Keep in mind that, during his initial meeting with Jon, Tyrion does a summersault when jumping down from a wall higher than Jons head, landing elegantly on his feet.

Tyrion is not clumsy. That might not be the way dwarves typically are in the real world, but IMHO he's to be thought of as a very, very unusual dwarf - more like a stocky child acrobat.


I thought I saw a quote from GRRM that he didn't understand the physical limitations of little people when he wrote the somersault/tumbling bit in AGOT and, having learned a bit more since, regretted writing it that way, or similar.

Edited by Newstar, 31 July 2013 - 11:36 PM.


#11 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:48 PM

Keep in mind that, during his initial meeting with Jon, Tyrion does a summersault when jumping down from a wall higher than Jons head, landing elegantly on his feet.

Tyrion is not clumsy. That might not be the way dwarves typically are in the real world, but IMHO he's to be thought of as a very, very unusual dwarf - more like a stocky child acrobat.


yessss but then that contradicts every passage where Tyrion "waddles" and his legs cramp. I think the whole Tyrion pulling a circque de soliel while meeting Jon is also one of the more comical passages in the entire series. I ate to use the expression but nothing but "plot armour" kept him alive throughout the ordeal.

#12 Newstar

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:09 AM

yessss but then that contradicts every passage where Tyrion "waddles" and his legs cramp. I think the whole Tyrion pulling a circque de soliel while meeting Jon is also one of the more comical passages in the entire series. I ate to use the expression but nothing but "plot armour" kept him alive throughout the ordeal.


I'd like to think GRRM has learned something by keeping Tyrion out of situations since ACOK where his survival depends on prowess in battle.

#13 Alhazred

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:14 AM

Here's a character about 4 feet tall, who has trouble walking, with no battle experience and hardly any training, yet he's mowing down soldiers like it's fucking dynasty warriors. I just....where did this come?


From the Fire.

#14 Florina Laufeyson

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:19 AM

Oh hai Bamfy! <3

Oh yeah, Tyrion having anything resembling skill in battle is just lulzy. I never got that.

#15 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:24 AM

Oh hai Bamfy! <3

Oh yeah, Tyrion having anything resembling skill in battle is just lulzy. I never got that.


I know this is a pretty cut and dry post but i just got done with ACOK again and forgot how ridiculous those passages were. It's like Gary Coleman leading the allies through D-day or something.

#16 Winter's Knight

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:25 AM

StanBamf! /grouphug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':grouphug:' />

#17 I know I know

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:26 AM

yessss but then that contradicts every passage where Tyrion "waddles" and his legs cramp. I think the whole Tyrion pulling a circque de soliel while meeting Jon is also one of the more comical passages in the entire series. I ate to use the expression but nothing but "plot armour" kept him alive throughout the ordeal.

I thought I saw a quote from GRRM that he didn't understand the physical limitations of little people when he wrote the somersault/tumbling bit in AGOT and, having learned a bit more since, regretted writing it that way, or similar.

In the real world, dwarves are basically mutants with movement problems, usually unable to match a child of a similar size and weight.

I just take it to mean that Tyrion isn't an earth-dwarf, and more similar to a child. Many children of his size would be able to match his sommersault and combat prowess.

Edited by I know I know, 01 August 2013 - 12:33 AM.


#18 Stannis-the-Mannis

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:27 AM

Well he certainly got training while at Casterly Rock. He probably gets overlooked in battle because of his size, so he's able to catch people with their guard down

#19 Bridgeburners

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:29 AM

If I recall Green Fork correctly, he chopped up a bunch of men on foot while he was on horseback, a huge advantage. Then, when he met the first horseback opponent he was unhorsed immediately, but then got kinda lucky (like he hit the horse and it fell on its rider or something like that). But Blackwater was definitely a lot less believable iirc.

Yeah, it seems to me like GRRM underestimated the limitations of dwarfs in the early part of the series. There's one thing the show does better than the books.

#20 StannisBamfatheon

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:31 AM

In the real world, dwarves are basically defective mutants. I just take it to mean that Tyrion isn't an earth-dwarf.



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