What If: Lyanna's Fate as Rhaegar's Queen/Mistress?

[Mariagoner]

As a fan of the rich mythology and history of Westeros, I've always wondered what could have happened if only a few changes had happened during the story. For example, what would have happened if Rhaegar had won the civil war and Lyanna Stark had lived to be either his second wife or new court mistress?

(BTW, there have been a few other topis that have explored this general idea but none about what would specifically happen to Lyanna and how she would react to becoming Rhaegar's new wife/mistress -- and realizing this role might be even more constricting than that of Lady Baratheon. Plus, I'd love to explore how others would react to Lyanna in her new role, given how incredibly sexist Westeros society is! This is just such a fascinating topic to me.)

I've always been curious about what would have happened to Lyanna Stark if she had lived after the incident (giving birth to Jon, I assume -- though I could be wrong!) at the Tower of Joy and if Rhaegar had ended up winning the civil war. We know she was impetuous, fiercely independent, and probably longed to get away from her arranged marriage with an infatuated Robert. There's also ample evidence to support the idea that Rhaegar either abducted or ran off with her in order to have her bear his child, the 'third head of the dragon' in a prophesy that his actual wife Elia (sickly after giving birth to his other 2 children) could not have. Although there's controversy over what exactly happened between the two, I do think that the story will ultimately reveal that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar willingly. I think we've been hit over the head with the 'Lyanna wanted her freedom because she was so feisty!' and 'Rhaegar is a truly romantic hero!' stick too often for the real story to be one of rape and abduction. Plus, given how only Robert (whose hysterical is about the evils of House Targaryen) thinks ill of Rhaegar, I'm sure we'll ultimately be asked to see Rhaegar as a good man with good intensions and terrible planning skills who made some very, very poorly thought out life decisions.

So what would have happened in Lyanna had lived, Rhaegar had won his civil war, and Lyanna had ended up (best case scenario) Rhaegar's second wife and (worst case scenario) his mistress in court? The funny thing is, I think Lyanna would have ended up horribly unhappy either way. Even in the best of circumstances (she and Jon are alive and well, Rhaegar doesn't die horribly under Robert's war-hammer, King's Landing isn't sacked, Aerys doesn't die or end up setting his city on fire), she'd end up living the incredibly restricted wife of a noble queen and her every movement would be constantly evaluated and gossiped about by every synocophant and schemer around her. And even if (and this is a big damn if) Elia condoned Rhaegar having a new queen and Jon being a possible rival to her own children, I doubt Dorne would take the insult offered to their own native daughter well. No doubt Lyanna would live under daily snubs from Elia's camp and always be second to what many would see as the real wife to Rhaegar. And god forbid Elia die at some point -- no doubt Lyanna would be blamed no matter what.

(That, of course, is not even going into how the kingdom at large would see Lyanna. The Targaryen's do have some history of polygamy but the rest of Westeros doesn't and Westerosi society is incredibly misogynistic to boot. No doubt a huge chunk of the population would come to see Lyanna as Rhaegar's whore, sympathize with Elia's plight, and think of Lyanna as the young trollop who almost plunged them into civil war. People don't tend to be kind to the 'other woman' in situations like there. And that's not even considering how the Baratheons, Martells, and Lannisters will think about the woman who screwed up their plans in so many ways! She'd be lucky if she only ended up being hated by half the realm.)

Additionally, Lyanna's family would probably end up being royally screwed over by the situation anyway. Given Rhaegar's incredibly poor planning skills (why bother sending word after you've 'abducted' the daughter of a high lord and have an insane father as a kind?), I'm pretty sure that a few Starks might well end up dead or disadvantaged anyway. Even if Ned doesn't die or have to take the black after being a 'traitor,' Ned's brother Brandon and father might still die due to Brandon's impetuousness and Aerys' madness. I doubt even Ned or the rest of the northerners would end up feeling very charitable toward Lyanna if they found out she willingly ran off with Rhaegar in a move that lead to some of the well-respected Starks being killed. And even if (best best best case scenario) Brandon and Lord Stark are spared by Aerys, I doubt they'd be happy to know that Lyanna had run off with no word and almost led them to get killed. I imagine she'd be (at best) cut off from her family and (at worst) have to live with the realization that she contributed to a situation where several of them were horribly murdered.

It would end up being a sad irony if Lyanna had lived after all, gotten the perfect prince she pined for, escaped an unhappy arranged marriage, ended up queen -- and then was unhappy anyway. Hell, maybe she might even look back to the decisions she made as a young girl and bitterly wish she had stuck with Robert after all. (Especially given the fact that Robert's likely dead in this scenario, given his pivotal role as a rebel. It's always easy to romanticize the young and dead.)

So what do you think? In this best-of-all-possible-worlds, is it still possible for Lyanna to end up happy?

[jenerationx]

OK, under the stipulations you've set forth -- that Lyanna had run off with Rhaegar willingly, that she ends up with him at court (instead of returning to Winterfell), that the Targaryens had won RR, etc...

I actually think she could have ended up disgustingly happy. I mean, this is all completely unproveable, but my thoughts are:

1) IF Elia was cool with it, there's no reason to think that Dorne would raise a huge stink. In the history we KNOW, they still sided with the Targaryens during RR, so it's not like if they side they fought for had won, they'd suddenly turn against them, imho. Also, as was pointed out in another thread, Lyanna's family was more powerful than Elia's. I don't think they'd start any kind of war over it, especially not having fought on Rhaegar's side during RR anyway.

2) If Elia WASN'T cool with it, I'd still think that Lyanna would be the favored wife/mistress, and that in itself has power.

3) Aegon would still be the heir to the throne; Rhaegar loved his children and I don't think he would screw over his first two kids in favor of his child with Lyanna. So while there might be some paranoia on the part of the Martells that Lyanna would try and put her own son on the throne, I don't think she or Jon are those sorts of people. Then again, this would be a different Jon, so who knows. If he grew up a beloved son of the country's most popular Prince, maybe he'd be a total brat. :P

4) The rest of the population, for good or ill, loved Rhaegar. They thought he walked on water. The Targaryens, in their eyes, have always been above the laws of men and gods (there's a passage that literally says that; too tired and lazy to find it right now). If he wanted to have two wives, I seriously doubt they'd raise a stink about it.

5) The Starks, to me, seem like a completely loyal-to-a-fault family. They might not be happy about her choice to be Rhaegar's mistress/second wife, but they're not going to resent her eternally for it. They'll support her in their own way, imho, because it's not like she intended for Brandon or her father to die. And as for the "rest of the northerners," it really only matters what the Starks think. It's clear that the other northerners generally defer to them in most respects.

So while I think she'd definitely be unhappy about the war that resulted from her and Rhaegar's actions, I don't know that it would mean that she'd be miserable for the rest of her life.

There you go, my total and complete conjecture on your what-if scenario. :)

[Mariagoner]

I love conjecture! And possibly I'm being much too gloomy in this scenario. But of course, the fun of it is that it never happened and we can make up all the possibilities we want. :cheers:

1) IF Elia was cool with it, there's no reason to think that Dorne would raise a huge stink. In the history we KNOW, they still sided with the Targaryens during RR, so it's not like if they side they fought for had won, they'd suddenly turn against them, imho. Also, as was pointed out in another thread, Lyanna's family was more powerful than Elia's. I don't think they'd start any kind of war over it, especially not having fought on Rhaegar's side during RR anyway.

Now, this idea very much interests me. I also agree that the Martells wouldn't end up in any kind of full-scale rebellion against the throne, at least so long as Elia remains the 'main' wife and her children are honored above any children Lyanna had.

But I don't think the situation is as easy as saying, welp, Jon will always be third to the already existing Rhaenys and Aegon. What if Lyanna has a bushel of other children, some of whom become ambitious? (Hell, maye we'll get the Stark-Targaryen version of Renly -- burningly ambitious and resentful of the older siblings getting all the goods.) If Lyanna lives, there's no reason Jon has to be her only child. What if Rhaenys and Aegon come to resent their half-siblings and see them as having power or priviledges that they don't have -- such as the greater love of their father? What if Lyanna's children come to resent the early children as being more 'legitimate'? There's nothing to ensure family harmony in the second generation even if the first gets along reasonably well.

And no doubt that there will be loyalists on both sides, trying to curry power. As we've seen from the books, there's only so much power to go around -- and there's only one iron throne. God forbid Rhaegar dies and can't mediate conflicts between his two 'families' -- or Aegon dies and Rhaenys wants the throne instead of passing it to Jon. Or any number of scenarios. It can all come into conflict so very, very easily.

The rest of the population, for good or ill, loved Rhaegar. They thought he walked on water. The Targaryens, in their eyes, have always been above the laws of men and gods (there's a passage that literally says that; too tired and lazy to find it right now). If he wanted to have two wives, I seriously doubt they'd raise a stink about it.

The thing with reputations is that they're so very fragile and can break so easily with scandal...

Rhaegar was beloved because he was the image of the 'perfect prince.' He was young, handsome, had a noble wife he seemed to treat well, had done his duty in having children, and was skilled at courtly graces and combat. The people loved him because there was nothing to cause them discontent and everything to make him hope he'd be a lot better than his horribly unpopular and crazed father. (Who, btw, is just as much a Targaryen as Rhaegar but clearly showed that being from that family was not any guarantee of being loved. Even Aerys was popular when he was Rhaegar's age! If you behave badly, even being a Targaryen won't get people to love you.)

And when the high lords, noble families, and smallfolk learn that Rhaegar had run off with the daughter of a high lord whose bethrothed to another high lord? That he was willing to piss off the Baratheons (by stealing Robert's fiancee) and the Martells (by taking another wife/mistress) and the Starks (by 'stealing' their daughter without their consent)? And that he did it all for some crackpot prophecy about dragons that very few people would believe in?

If I were them, I'd start worrying that the Targaryen crazy genes were starting to take over. And I'd start thinking that if this pattern of behavior keeps up, I might be better off teaming up with the other noble families and figuring out how to depose this nut-case before he steals one of my daughters or makes some other outrageous demand. Hey, his family doesn't even have dragons anymore...

The Starks, to me, seem like a completely loyal-to-a-fault family. They might not be happy about her choice to be Rhaegar's mistress/second wife, but they're not going to resent her eternally for it. They'll support her in their own way, imho, because it's not like she intended for Brandon or her father to die. And as for the "rest of the northerners," it really only matters what the Starks think. It's clear that the other northerners generally defer to them in most respects.

And what happens if Brandon still strides into Aerys' court right after Lyanna is abducted, screams for Rhaegar, and gets himself and his father executed by the mad king before Robert's Rebellion even officially begins? Will the Starks and their northerner friends still forgive Lyanna for 'causing'* that by willingly running off? Or see her as a traitor who ran off to join the dragons and forsake her own flesh and blood?

*BTW, I don't think she or Rhaegar directly caused that, giventhat Brandon was a hot-head and Aerys a total crazy-person. But I have few doubts she'll be blamed nonetheless. The woman almost always is -- especially if she's seen as being a woman of low virtue.

[Nami]

I really don't think Lyanna would have been happy if R and her survived and worked something out

Her family was almost destroyed and she would probably blame R and herself for what happened, thus ruining any possibilty of a happy married life. Add that the side-eyes she was going to get constantly

[Mariagoner]

Add that the side-eyes she was going to get constantly.

God, I feel terrible thinking about the reputation Lyanna would be saddled with if she lived, came back to court, and ended up Rhaegar's second wife. It's possible that the Northerners would eventually come to support her, even if she caused the deaths of Brandon and Lord Stark. Assuming Ned doesn't get exiled for his part in being a rebel and becomes Lord Stark, he would probably still love and support her as much as he can. But he's stuck in the North and, well, let's face it -- he has the political savvy of a partially defrosted skunk. How much could he possibly do to support her when she's stuck down in the trecherous south?

Actually, thinking of how the rest of the noble houses would end up treating her is a fascinating proposition.

The Baratheons are hardly likely to think well of her, with Robert (assuming he lives) likely to become especially bitter toward her and Rhaegar. That goes double if the Baratheons suffer huge losses in people, power or prestige from their part in any given rebellion.

The Martells may or may not personally hate her -- but any power she has is less power that Elia (and the Martells as a whole) have, so they have every reason to undermine her power-base as much as possible. (Even if they're not personally nasty -- which, c'mon, Oberyn would totally be!)

The Lannisters will probably end up hating her because, hey, Lannisters! Tywin would likely be pissed to realize that Rhaegar was considering a 'second wife' and chose the wolf-girl over his own perfect daughter -- and Cersei is hardly likely to be less happy. Given that, the animosity between Tywin and Aerys, and Jaime's still being on the Kingsguard despite Tywin's wishes, the Lannisters would do anything they could to undermine Rhaegar -- including targetting Lyanna.

The Arryns will also likely be displeased, given their close ties to both the Starks and the Baratheons. I'm not sure if they'd take any active steps but they'd hardly be likely to think well of Rhaegar or Lyanna either.

I'm not sure about the rest of the family but I would not want to be in Lyanna's shoes, given that half the court (at least!) would be conspiring in one way or another against her from the start!

[lareine]

I'm a little confused about the OP; in your outcome, were Lyanna's brother and father still killed by the Aerys? Is Robert still alive?

[Mariagoner]

I'm a little confused about the OP; in your outcome, were Lyanna's brother and father still killed by the Aerys? Is Robert still alive?

Ah, I should be more clear, sorry. I'm willing to speculate about all of these facts and would love to know how others see it going down! I think Robert's death could go either way (he might be saved, depending on whether Rhaegar can get his head out of his ass soon enough to send a damn message to someone about how he hasn't kidnapped Lyanna after all) but I think Brandon and Lord Stark would probably still be killed, given how impetuous Brandon was. But I'm open to hearing ANY scenarios people come up with. I love speculation!

Who lives? Who dies? How does the rebellion end? Who ends up loving/hating Lyanna, Rhaegar, Elia, Jon? What happens to Lyanna later in life? All possible ideas are welcome!

[Ygrain]

I don't think that Lyanna's position at the court would be so very bad - it would largely depend if Rhaegar managed to depose Aerys ASAP and establish himself as a strong king. If he ruled as a strong king, I doubt that anyone would dare any impunity towards his queen;quite the contrary, if the new queen favoured riding in breeches, guess what the new fashion at the court would be. Another factor would be Elia and her influence - if she was pushed to the background or if they shared status, if they got on well or if they clashed and there were competing factions of their followers.

The main interested parties, the Starks, Baratheons and Martells would definitely have to be appeased with lands and titles. I don't think that Ned would necessarily end up at the Wall, if Rhaegar was king, he could fully pardon him.

What I perceive as the biggest danger would be Tywin Lannister, because his precious Cersei would be scorned twice, and I totally see him starting some devious scheme for revenge, just like when Prince Duncan chose Jenny over some noble bride.

[Mariagoner]

I don't think that Lyanna's position at the court would be so very bad - it would largely depend if Rhaegar managed to depose Aerys ASAP and establish himself as a strong king. If he ruled as a strong king, I doubt that anyone would dare any impunity towards his queen;quite the contrary, if the new queen favoured riding in breeches, guess what the new fashion at the court would be. Another factor would be Elia and her influence - if she was pushed to the background or if they shared status, if they got on well or if they clashed and there were competing factions of their followers.

I do think it's likely that there are some people with anti-Martell feelings who might well want Lyanna to ascend over Elia. I mean, the Martells can hardly be universally beloved, right? Perhaps another high family that doesn't have much skin in the game yet -- the Tyrells seem suitably devious -- might well decide to cast their lot with Lyanna and hope for her and her brood to triumph over Elia's kin. Heh, maybe they'll propose young Margaery to be young Jon's bride! (Here's to hoping Jon doesn't meet the fate of her other world's husbands...)

Honestly, Lyanna would have to be very politically savvy not to end up ensnared in the plot of a Varys or a Littlefinger who want to make trouble for her -- or even a Queen of Thorns who wishes to ride her coat-tails. Even if she's beloved by Rhaegar still, she (and by extension, her children) might get a very nasty backlash if the Martells come to believe that she's trying to usurp any of their family or queen's power or status -- or getting to close to the enemies of the Martells. And given that she's a Stark, I don't really have high hopes for her not inadvertantly offending the Martells in one way or another.

(I love the Starks but lets face it -- they pretty much all seem to have the political skills of a slow bread box. It works up in the rugged, might-makes-right North but down South...)

And I really am interested in the idea of Lyanna changing ideas of what queens and high born ladies can do -- but I don't doubt that she'll get some nasty backlash as well. I mean, if she found happiness in running off with a man of her choosing, why wouldn't other noble maidens (and even men) be inspired by that? And why wouldn't high lords and their families (who depend on their obedient children entering political matches that they arrange and that burnish their power) feel threatened and even angered by her example? If I were a Lord Tyrell or whatever, I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to look up to her!

Thus, a campaign of propoganda against her that might well be countered with equal ferocity by Lyanna's supporters.

(And now I'm wondering who the Westerosi version of Olivia Pope might be? Because god knows Lyanna will need her!)

[Ygrain]

Would Varys or LF still be around, though? We know that Varys was doing his best to alienate Rhaegar and Aerys, would Rhaegar keep him at the court? Similarly, if Jon Arryn didn't become Hand, would LF still be able to access the court if he didn't have Lysa's skirts to climb on?

I am not sure to what extent Lyanna would be setting an example, as it all might boil down to "it's the Targs, no rules apply", while the rest of Westeros goes their old way.

I definitely agree that there would be forces attempting to create a rift in the kingdom but I am not sure that Lyanna's life would be so devastating, at least not until the time when her and Elia's children would come of age and a strife for power might begin. I guess this might be to a great degree affected by the relationship between Lyanna and Elia - if they got on well, the chances that their children would grow up decent human beings with good relationship to each other would increase.

[Mariagoner]

Would Varys or LF still be around, though? We know that Varys was doing his best to alienate Rhaegar and Aerys, would Rhaegar keep him at the court? Similarly, if Jon Arryn didn't become Hand, would LF still be able to access the court if he didn't have Lysa's skirts to climb on?

If it isn't the Varys or LF that we know, I'm certain that some other strivers would rise up and take their place. They're both very or fairly low-born men who managed to make their way up in the world through savvy, cunning and political acumen and every realistically cast court has people like that. (Just as we have many people like that in our halls of power today!) There will always be people to tempt and make trouble for people in power -- and I'm sure many of them would set their sights on controlling Lyanna in one way or another. After all, who better to try and get a hook into than the young, politically naive and probably guilt-stricken new queen, who lacks a power-base of her own?

Lyanna better hope that Rhaegar somehow has the power to keep them in check. Then again, considering the political capital it would take to keep offended parties like the Starks (stole their daughter without permission), Baratheons (stole Robert's intended), and Martells (installed a rival to their own daughter) happy -- well, I'd honestly be surprised if he actually ends up with much power. He might well have to give up quite a lot of Targaryen gold/land to keep them satisfied -- which only shrinks his own power base.

(After all, if he decided to appease them by giving away, say, Tyrell territory -- well, he's just made another enemy! Then again, he might be naive enough to think that sort of move would go over well. He doesn't exactly strike me as the astute sort.)

As we've seen time and again in the series, kings may pretend to have absolute rule -- but that's only an illusion. They only have as much power as the people around them believe they have -- and Rhaegar's power will probably more than fray once the high lords around him start wondering if he's really capable of ruling or if they'd be better off rebelling once and for all.

I definitely agree that there would be forces attempting to create a rift in the kingdom but I am not sure that Lyanna's life would be so devastating, at least not until the time when her and Elia's children would come of age and a strife for power might begin. I guess this might be to a great degree affected by the relationship between Lyanna and Elia - if they got on well, the chances that their children would grow up decent human beings with good relationship to each other would increase.

Even if Elia is reasonably welcoming, would Lyanna be personally happy? This is the girl that ran off because she didn't want to be Lady Baratheon, after all. It isn't as though living under the hot-house of speculation as a queen is any better -- every move she makes will be gossiped about and she'll never be alone without people constantly watching her. Queens don't exactly have easy, free lives where they get to decide what to do of their own free will. She probably won't be thrilled at having to share Rhaegar sexually with Elia either -- and refusing to do so might well upset and humiliate Elia further.

And Aerys will make the father-in-law from hell!

[Pikachu101]

I really don't think Lyanna would have been happy if R and her survived and worked something out

Her family was almost destroyed and she would probably blame R and herself for what happened, thus ruining any possibilty of a happy married life. Add that the side-eyes she was going to get constantly

:agree:

If she stays with Rhaegar her life isn't going to be a walk in the park, far from it actually. She's definitely going to suffer from some form of depression knowing that her father and brother are dead, whilst the rest of her family declared war against the throne.

And even if you think Lyanna isn't fully to blame, people are still going to blame her for the war because she's a woman. Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Boleyn, Wallis Simpson etc. they always blame the woman for "seducing" their beloved king.

Lyanna's going to have this looming over her head, everywhere she goes and she clearly wasn't educated on how to be a queen so she's going to suffer even more.

It's all really sad actually :(

[Mariagoner]

And even if you think Lyanna isn't fully to blame, people are still going to blame her for the war because she's a woman. Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Boleyn, Wallis Simpson etc. they always blame the woman for "seducing" their beloved king.

Lyanna's going to have this looming over her head, everywhere she goes and she clearly wasn't educated on how to be a queen so she's going to suffer even more.

It really fascinates me to think about the optics of Lyanna's situation. Sure, Rhaegar will probably cite some Targaryen examples from literally hundreds of years back and swear that she's prophesized to be his second wife and bear his dragon-rider son... but how many people are going to actually believe that? Unless they're inclinded to be incredibly religious or into mysticism of some sort, most people would default to thinking that Rhaegar's already starting to experience the family madness (his father used to be a reasonably sane, handsome and popular young man, you know!) or that Rhaegar is making a bullshit excuse to run off with a noble girl he would never be able to otherwise bed. Or both! Who would be inclined to believe Rhaegar's with Lyanna for a noble cause, as opposed to his lust taking over?

So yes, I do think many people in this incredibly misogynistic society where a high born woman's maidenhood means everything to her and her family's honor would think of Lyanna as being a trumped up tart and temptress. Would they have to go through some sort of medieval PR campaign to get Lyanna to become more popular, ala Margaery and her orphan visits? How would they fight the inevitable rumors that Lyanna is a slattern or a witch that captivated the prince? And would she be able to have any say in her life -- like whether or not she can fight in a tourney? (Because you know she'd want to.) Or would Rhaegar insist he be as 'obedient' as dear Elia? Would Lyanna even get to raise Jon? Or does Elia -- as 'head' wife -- take charge of that?

In fact, would Rhaegar and Lyanna still 'love' each other after the pressure-cooker of living in court, especially given how badly suited Lyanna would be? (Seriously -- think of how well an older Arya would deal with being queen and that's about how I think things would go with Lyanna as well.) Do these two even really love one another or just the fantasy of each other?

The interpersonal dynamics just fascinate me!

[Morienthar]

She would be dead,wouldn't she even if Rhaegar won at the trident,He still have to defeat Stannis and Benjen and Whatever Arryn was there in the Vale and the Blackfish or Hoster in Riverrun,He'd never be able to get to her quick enough with a Maester to actually save her.

[Erkan12]

If Lyanna accept Rhaegar, and went to him with her own will. Then she is really a whore for me, worser than Sansa. I hope Rhaegar was abductor.

(I couldn't imagine how Eddard would love her still, and make crypts for her under winterfell...)

[Morienthar]

If Lyanna accept Rhaegar, and went to him with her own will. Than she is really a whore for me, worser than Sansa.

What?? Where does Sansa come into this explain......

[Mariagoner]

She would be dead,wouldn't she even if Rhaegar won at the trident,He still have to defeat Stannis and Benjen and Whatever Arryn was there in the Vale and the Blackfish or Hoster in Riverrun,He'd never be able to get to her quick enough with a Maester to actually save her.

We'll assume that Rhaegar was smart enough to hire a mid-wife this time around, I guess.

(Because seriously... what a brilliant mind this man has. Let's take an inexperienced teenage girl who's never shown any knowledge of anatomy or medicine or child-birth, stick her in a tower surrounded by desert, impregnate her, and then leave her to give birth alone while all her guards are off trying to kill her brother whose come to rescue her. Apparently, being smart enough to hire a discreet, experienced and incredibly well-paid mid-wife to help said teenage girl deliver her incredibly valuable prophecy baby is going a step too far.)

(It's actually really sad because who knows... maybe Lyanna might have lived if she had any bloody help while giving birth! Hell, infant Jon might have died as well if Ned wasn't around -- rendering the whole misadventure even more pointless. Seriously, I don't think Rhaegar could plan a freaking picnic, given how bad he is at handling details.)

[Erkan12]

What?? Where does Sansa come into this explain......

Sansa tell the queen about Eddard's plans, she is really little bitch, she just deceived his father just because being queen for joff... Plus she lied about arya-joff thing too...

[Mariagoner]

If Lyanna accept Rhaegar, and went to him with her own will. Then she is really a whore for me, worser than Sansa. I hope Rhaegar was abductor.

This is exactly what I think the average Westerosi citizen will think of Lyanna. Poor girl!

[Morienthar]

We'll assume that Rhaegar was smart enough to hire a mid-wife this time around, I guess.

(Because seriously... what a brilliant mind this man has. Let's take an inexperienced teenage girl who's never shown any knowledge of anatomy or medicine or child-birth, stick her in a tower surrounded by desert, impregnate her, and then leave her to give birth alone while all her guards are off trying to kill her brother whose come to rescue her. Apparently, being smart enough to hire a discreet, experienced and incredibly well-paid mid-wife to help said teenage girl deliver her incredibly valuable prophecy baby is going a step too far.)

(It's actually really sad because who knows... maybe Lyanna might have lived if she had any bloody help while giving birth! Hell, infant Jon might have died as well if Ned wasn't around -- rendering the whole misadventure even more pointless. Seriously, I don't think Rhaegar could plan a freaking picnic, given how bad he is at handling details.)

I think even with a Mid wife Lyanna was much too young to actually safely birth a child,Either she would die or the child would.

There's also the chance that Rhaegar never cared.