What If: Lyanna's Fate as Rhaegar's Queen/Mistress?

[Lord Damian]

If Rhaeagar valued Jon so much, I doubt Jon would end up a bastard in this version of Westerosi history.

I wonder if Jon would end up happier as the prince of Westeros than as the bastard of Winterfell? Sadly enough, I think he'd likely suffer feelings of loneliness either which way, given that he'd grow up with the tangled history of his parents and the schemers of the court constantly whispering about his potential trecheary. Poor guy can't win either which way.

That's a really interesting idea. Could the crown come to directly control the north if Lyanna is the last 'legitimate' Stark left? (Although that's assuming Lord Stark and Brandon are killed, Ned is killed/exiled, and Benjen is... somewhere else. Exiled as well? I think he took the black cloak years later, didn't he?) Or if young Benjen is left Lord Stark, maybe Rhaegar would come to influence more than he would a more mature Ned.

It would be seen as even more of a power-grab on the Targaryen's part, wouldn't it? And I wonder how the loyalists in the North would come view that!

Absolutely it would, Benjen would have been the key but the Stark host would have had to lose the Trident Battle and would have been below the safety of Moat Cailen. Besides that, the Freys and Lannisters were both awaiting the outcome of the Battle to see what side to take (the victors). The North would have had to bend the knee and Rheagar's love child with Lyanna would have inherited the North. A targaryen, I think that was part of the plan. Maybe for the Vale of Arryn as well. Rheagar thought of himself as a demigod and his children were to be greater than he, they were "deserving" of much, Aegon - King, his sister his wife/Queen and his kid by Lyanna, the North. Simple.

[Mariagoner]

Ned was at the Trident,He would either be captured or killed,even captured he's as good as dead.

Poor Ned. Is he perpetuallly doomed to have his head lopped off for being a traitor to the crown?

I know some think she'll try and justify it in her head and force herself to ignore all the bad bits. But on the other hand considering ho much she's going to suffer in court I can see her giving up, she's lost everything and won nothing in return.

But I can also see her trying to go back home to Winterfell, she doesn't belong in court and she's not fit to be queen. When she finally realises it, I'm sure she'll try to leave

Would Lyanna be allowed to go? I mean, maybe she wouldn't even end up being Rhaegar's queen or mistress. Maybe Rhaegar would realize how many political compromises he'd have to make to have a second wife (the Martells alone would be expensive to buy off!) and send her packing. Hell, perhaps she'd end up married to Robert after all, as Rhaegar might not need much more of her after getting that third head of a dragon. Or -- god, who else could she marry? Jaime? (But he's still in the king's guard... unless he got thrown out for Tywin's sake?)

Rheagar thought of himself as a demigod and his children were to be greater than he, they were "deserving" of much, Aegon - King, his sister his wife/Queen and his kid by Lyanna, the North. Simple.

If something happens to Aegon, will Jon eventually have to shack up with his half-sister Rhaenys? If so... eww. Lyanna really should have thought of this before she ran off.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

I don't think Ned would be dead

How come? He was one of the leaders of rebellion and had a bounty on his head. Rheagar went to crush the rebellion before deposing the mad king. Plus it would stupid for targs to keep ned alive considering how north will flock behind ned again and start another rebellion.

[Nami]

Does't matter if she wouldn't be happy being queen or owning a castle, she would be forced to grow up and realize that life doesnt always turns out how we want it to be

She was very naive as hell, like Rhaegar

What? She wanted to be wild and free? She was the only daughter of Winterfell! Unless she wanted to live like a wildling beyond the wall, her fate was to marry and have kids liking or not.

She thought everyone had the privilege of marrying for love? Please. It's amazing how life even taught Cersei how things are hard.

Even if she became queen, everything would be different. In the TOJ she had Rhaegar all to herself, being king and queen he would barely have time for her. And her "wild" lifestyle would crumble, like it would be if she married any Lord. Sure, she could keep some hobbies, but her life would be different, she would have to behave in a certain manner and her duties as a wife, queen/wife of a Lord and mother would still be there until the day she died.

[HtheHound]

If Rhaeagar valued Jon so much, I doubt Jon would end up a bastard in this version of Westerosi history.

I wonder if Jon would end up happier as the prince of Westeros than as the bastard of Winterfell? Sadly enough, I think he'd likely suffer feelings of loneliness either which way, given that he'd grow up with the tangled history of his parents and the schemers of the court constantly whispering about his potential trecheary. Poor guy can't win either which way.

Bloodraven was legitimised, but kept the bastard name of Rivers, and was always subject to the whispers of the court and treated with suspicion. It was only his power which protected his position. He also ended as Lord Commander at the Wall. Some interesting similarities I think.

[Mariagoner]

Bloodraven was legitimised, but kept the bastard name of Rivers, and was always subject to the whispers of the court and treated with suspicion. It was only his power which protected his position. He also ended as Lord Commander at the Wall. Some interesting similarities I think.

So Jon might end up back at the Wall in this particular version of history as well? Poor man simply can't get away from it!

Even if she became queen, everything would be different. In the TOJ she had Rhaegar all to herself, being king and queen he would barely have time for her. And her "wild" lifestyle would crumble, like it would be if she married any Lord. Sure, she could keep some hobbies, but her life would be different, she would have to behave in a certain manner etc.

I've been reading a few medieval histories and although I know they obviously don't take place in this fictional universe, it's really amazing and very sad to see what constraints most noble women and queens lived under. Lyanna should be thanking her stars that she ever even had the freedom to go about wearing pants and learning to fight, whether or not her father fully approved. And for sure, that behavior would be considered scandalous in court!

The irony is, if she married Robert after all, she'd likely end up with more freedom in her life. He seemed utterly infatuated with her and would likely let her romp around to her heart's content. And his whoring and drinking would just allow her to take over managing his lands. She would have been given more space to be her own woman as Lady Baratheon, I think.

[Pikachu101]

How come? He was one of the leaders of rebellion and had a bounty on his head. Rheagar went to crush the rebellion before deposing the mad king. Plus it would stupid for targs to keep ned alive considering how north will flock behind ned again and start another rebellion.

Well there's a little thing called negotiating, as Tywin said "help them to their feet" or something :dunno:

Also I don't think Ned would rebel if he knew Lyanna was now effectively Rhaegar's second wife and if he did care about her I don't think Rhaegar would kill another brother of Lyanna's. If he kills Ned the North would have a serious vendetta against the crown, it's better to keep him alive

[Pikachu101]

Does't matter if she wouldn't be happy being queen or owning a castle, she would be forced to grow up and realize that life doesnt always turns out how we want it to be

She was very naive as hell, like Rhaegar

What? She wanted to be wild and free? She was the only daughter of Winterfell! Unless she wanted to live like a wildling beyond the wall, her fate was to marry and have kids liking or not.

She thought everyone had the privilege of marrying for love? Please. It's amazing how life even taught Cersei how things are hard.

Even if she became queen, everything would be different. In the TOJ she had Rhaegar all to herself, being king and queen he would barely have time for her. And her "wild" lifestyle would crumble, like it would be if she married any Lord. Sure, she could keep some hobbies, but her life would be different, she would have to behave in a certain manner and her duties as a wife, queen/wife of a Lord and mother would still be there until the day she died.

Spot on, I may not always agree with you but this I certainly will.

Lyanna's going to have to grow up and face reality and she's going to hate every minute of it. Also she was never trained to be queen or how to deal with politics, she's going to be so screwed

[Lord Damian]

Would Lyanna be allowed to go? I mean, maybe she wouldn't even end up being Rhaegar's queen or mistress. Maybe Rhaegar would realize how many political compromises he'd have to make to have a second wife (the Martells alone would be expensive to buy off!) and send her packing. Hell, perhaps she'd end up married to Robert after all, as Rhaegar might not need much more of her after getting that third head of a dragon. Or -- god, who else could she marry? Jaime? (But he's still in the king's guard... unless he got thrown out for Tywin's sake?)

Robert would have been dead too. I think the abduction of Lyanna was a trap that Aerys had set and Rheagar took thinks into a whole new direction, way, way too far. Rheagar was a curse upon Westeros, not a beautiful Prince. A curse, just like Dany has been to everyone in Essos. her brother, Drogo, Astapor, Dunkai and now Mereen. The Targs are a cursed family. Plain and simple.

[Mariagoner]

Lyanna's going to have to grow up and face reality and she's going to hate every minute of it. Also she was never trained to be queen or how to deal with politics, she's going to be so screwed.

Even a more politically astute Margaery, for example, would probably find it very difficult to maneuever in the trecherous waters of court as the first new second queen in a few centuries -- and one whose marriage almost caused a civil war. Lyanna? That poor girl's Stark genes and (lack of) political training are going to bite her in the rear!

Also I don't think Ned would rebel if he knew Lyanna was now effectively Rhaegar's second wife and if he did care about her I don't think Rhaegar would kill another brother of Lyanna's. If he kills Ned the North would have a serious vendetta against the crown, it's better to keep him alive

Heh, funny thing is, even if Ned kept his head and wanted to help his sister politically, I doubt he could do much besides make the situation worse. I can just imagine him sidling up to one of Lyanna's Martell rivals, spilling Lyanna's plans, and then warning them not to do anything dishonorable!

Poor stupid Starks. I love them so but they are so dumb politically.

[daario's man]

Lyanna wouldn't be happy as I think Oberyn would happen to her and Jon. Any of her children would be too much of a risk to Elia's kids.

[TalalOfDorne]

Ist not just Lyanna. No one is going to be happy about this. Its going to end in blood IMO.

[Nami]

The irony is, if she married Robert after all, she'd likely end up with more freedom in her life. He seemed utterly infatuated with her and would likely let her romp around to her heart's content. And his whoring and drinking would just allow her to take over managing his lands. She would have been given more space to be her own woman as Lady Baratheon, I think.

Absolutely

Being a queen is a much heavier burden

[Nami]

Even a more politically astute Margaery, for example, would probably find it very difficult to maneuever in the trecherous waters of court as the first new second queen in a few centuries -- and one whose marriage almost caused a civil war. Lyanna? That poor girl's Stark genes and (lack of) political training are going to bite her in the rear!

And MAYBE Rhaegar would even get tired of her, just like Henry VIII eventually became tired of Anne Boleyn's tantrums in court (plus not being able to give him a son helped). Sure, it's fun and exciting at first, but it gets old.

In the TOJ they lived the first stage of a relationship when you want to be around that person all the time. You can't keep your hands off each other. BUT after that goes away, that's when we see if it's really love or it was just a thrill, just like it happened with Ned and Cat.

[The Frosted King]

Lyanna was a stupid and selfish girl. The reality of court life would quickly have her wishing for StormsEnd, or better still Winterfell.

[Pikachu101]

Lyanna was a stupid and selfish girl. The reality of court life would quickly have her wishing for StormsEnd, or better still Winterfell.

She probably thought it would be just like the songs :P

When you read child fairy tales you can see where she'd get the impression that people would accept her with open arms because she's "special" and Rhaegar "chose" her.

You can tell when someone's suited for court life and you can tell when someone should stay away because they don't belong

[Mariagoner]

And MAYBE Rhaegar would even get tired of her, just like Henry VIII eventually became tired of Anne Boleyn's tantrums in court (plus not being able to give him a son helped). Sure, it's fun and exciting at first, but it gets old.

In the TOJ they lived the first stage of a relationship when you want to be around that person all the time. You can't keep your hands off each other. BUT after that goes away, that's when we see if it's really love or it was just a thrill, just like it happened with Ned and Cat.

You know, that's precisely why I've never bought the idea that Rhaegar and Lyanna were truly in love with each other, were soul-mates, and wanted to run off and be free and produce Jon and sparkles and sunshine and flowers.

For god's sake, what did these two even know about each other before they ran off with one another? How much did they have in common and what -- besides Rhaegar's fantasies about his prophesized children and Lyanna's fantasies about somehow running wild as a knight despite being his new queen -- would they even talk about? How strong could their relationship possibly be when it began as Rhaegar's quest to find a suitable womb for a new daughter and Lyanna's delusions about how running off with him would make her life happier?

Even if no major deaths happened and these two had somehow ended up living in their fairy-tale -- hell, let's go further and say even if Elia conveniently dies of ill-health and Lyanna is left as Rhaegar's sole queen of the realm -- I can't imagine either of them dealing well with the day-to-day reality of court life together. Rhaegar's already shown that he's dangerously willing to cross basic conventions and norms (like -- don't run off with a bethrothed woman when you're married yourself) and no doubt that'll get him into trouble as king. And Lyanna's life as a queen is laughable to think of. Arya might be compared to Lyanna constantly but in terms of wooly-headed fantasies, Lyanna's more like early Sansa! (And even Sansa was much more worldly than Lyanna by the age of 13 or so.)

[Nami]

I hope it gets confirmed by GRRM that they had a true romance and died for it just to piss people off and this "Rhaegar is obsessed" thing stops

Funny this is even a debate and put in doubt because it's actually directly affirmed (at least from Rhaegar's side) that he loved the girl.

[Mariagoner]

I hope it gets confirmed by GRRM that they had a true romance and died for it just to piss people off and this "Rhaegar is obsessed" thing stops.

Funny this is even a debate and put in doubt because it's actually directly affirmed (at least from Rhaegar's side) that he loved the girl.

Did he love her for the person she was or was he infatuated with his prophecy and the child she would give him and the unrealistic idea that Lyanna (the girl who wanted to run off and be a knight) would happy as a queen of Westeros? Would he still love her if they somehow made it out alive and he realized that his running off had indirectly led to Elia and his other children being killed?

Somehow, I really doubt Rhaegar's 'love' for Lyanna would have led to much of anything had her womb not been fertile, her bloodline not been grand, and the prophecy so very enticing.

And similarly, how deep was Lyanna's love for Rhaegar? Did she love him for the person he was or because he was offering her an enticing exit to an arranged marriage to a man she didn't love? Would she still love him once she realized that running helped pave a path to the death of some of her beloved family? Or that being his second queen would mean that any dreams of freedom would die as she's forced into a rigid and unrelenting role in court?

They might have felt passion toward each other -- but how much was directed at reality and how much at the fantasy of each other they built up based on hope and prophecy?

[Nami]

Did he love her for the person she was or was he infatuated with his prophecy and the child she would give him and the unrealistic idea that Lyanna (the girl who wanted to run off and be a knight) would happy as a queen of Westeros?

Somehow, I really doubt Rhaegar's 'love' for Lyanna would have led to much of anything had her womb not been fertile, her bloodline not been grand, and the prophecy so very enticing.

And similarly, how deep was Lyanna's love for Rhaegar? Did she love him for the person he was or because he was offering her an enticing exit to an arranged marriage to a man she didn't love? Would she still love him once she realized that running helped pave a path to the death of some of her beloved family? Or that being his second queen would mean that any dreams of freedom would die as she's forced into a rigid and unrelenting role in court?

They might have felt passion toward each other -- but how much was directed at reality and how much at the fantasy of each other they built up based on hope and prophecy?

Well, of course you can think like that if you want, but the info that we have is that Rhaegar loved her. Period.

All these details if he loved her for who she really was etc are little things GRRM would have to answer, I doubt he will even put that in the books.