Why is Rhaegar seen in a postive light?

[jenerationx]

However the Lyanna part is only half of the equation, what sparked is people believing that Elia would be cool with her husband running off with someone else, while she lay half dead.

I don't have strong opinions on this myself, I'm still on the fence.

However, the arguments I've seen made on other threads about Elia potentially being OK with it (and again, this is NOT my argument, I'm just summarizing!) is due to a combination of:

1) It did not seem to be a love match between Rhaegar and Elia. He was "fond" of her and it's possible she felt more than that for him, but we have no evidence one way or another iirc...

2) Elia was Dornish, and the Dornish seem to have more flexible ideas about marriage and fidelity, from what we've seen of Oberyn and other Dornish examples (can't recall the others offhand)

3) Dany's vision in the HotU showed Rhaegar and Elia with Aegon, and Rhaegar saying that he needed one more kid to fulfill the prophecy... so Elia may have known and even supported his quest for this third child, even though by that point she couldn't give him one herself, as it was too dangerous to her health.

Anyway, this thread might be of interest to you if you're interested in that subject.

This one might also be interesting, the OP asked something similar to your initial question...

[The Wolves]

I see him in a positive light because I don't think he is any worse than the people we meet in AGOT, he's actually better than a bunch of them. I don't excuse his mistakes like taking Lyanna, leaving his wife and children without his protection, or staying away while a war was being fought. I just don't have all the facts so I can't condemn him exactly.

[mindchap]

I don't remember this

Sorry, she yells EDDARD! had to go back and check.

[TheZone]

Post

Thanks for that link :cool4:

[King of Winters]

Perhaps I am getting the timeline wrong, but wasn't Ageon born after the tourney ?

He was. But Elia wasn't half dead because she was carrying Aegon.

[TheZone]

I see him in a positive light because I don't think he is any worse than the people we meet in AGOT, he's actually better than a bunch of them. I don't excuse his mistakes like taking Lyanna, leaving his wife and children without his protection, or staying away while a war was being fought. I just don't have all the facts so I can't condemn him exactly.

Im not exactly condemning him, I am just questioning why people view his actions positively. I am a flip flopper on him, tough I never view what he did as a good or right thing.

[TheZone]

He was. But Elia wasn't half dead because she was carrying Aegon.

What I meant was she was half dead after giving birth.

[Ygrain]

But he remembers the dream when he wakes up, being the same as it was in real life.

That's at the beginning of the sequence, for the setting - the three knights versus his seven companions and the dialogue that followed (remarkably coherent for a fever dream). Then it goes:

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

“Lord Eddard,” Lyanna called again.

“I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise …”

“Lord Eddard,” a man echoed from the dark.

Groaning, Eddard Stark opened his eyes. Moonlight streamed through the tall windows of the Tower of the Hand.

“Lord Eddard?” A shadow stood over the bed.

Note how he is addressed here as Eddard, even though the catchphrase is "Promise me, Ned," (compare that his family and friends always adress him as Ned, not Eddard), and after the first occurence, it becomes "Lord Eddard".

[Nami]

People who knew Rhaegar personally had only good things to say about him

I'm sure if he was a dick his reputation would be different. Like it was with Joffrey when he was just a prince.

People that were around him must have seen the way treated others and little things like that. And the smallfolk also liked him, I guess he wasn't an arrogant asshole and was nice to them.

[The Wolves]

Im not exactly condemning him, I am just questioning why people view his actions positively. I am a flip flopper on him, tough I never view what he did as a good or right thing.

Oh okay, my bad didn't read your post good but I'll answer it now. I don't think Rhaegar's actions was good or right no matter if he was trying to save the world. He took a young girl away from her family, he should have known better. He made a lot of mistakes none of his actions were right or good IMO.

[King of Winters]

What I meant was she was half dead after giving birth.

She might have been, but not at the Toureny, as it was before Aegon was born.

[The Wolves]

What I meant was she was half dead after giving birth.

I think so I think it was said that Elia had to stay in bed a week after his birth because it almost killed her.

[TheZone]

She might have been, but not at the Toureny, as it was before Aegon was born.

You are just trolling me right now ...

[MidnightAurora]

Also when Ned remembers the ToJ incident he remembers Lyanna yelling at him to stop when they are fighting the KG, so I doubt she was being held against her will. As for how Elia felt, we don't really know, I mean the Dornish have a more liberal outlook toward marriage, and the Targ views weren't exactly conservative either. And as for the Starks, Lyanna was like Brandon, and according to SSMs he most likely left a few bastards running around too.

But then again, Rhaegar and Elia's marriage was arranged so we don't know the feelings they may or may not have had for one another, and according to app, Lyanna was the name that Rhaegar cried out with his dying breath. So they may have actually found love in each other, only time and the last two books will tell for sure. Hopefully anyway. :)

I thought Lyanna yelled out to Ned before the fighting started, but someone on a different post stated he was hallucinating and the voice he heard was one of his staff trying to wake him from his milk of the poppy daze. After reading the chapter again I had a few thoughts. if Ned, heard Lyanna at the Window how could she be there if she was later found in a pool of blood? Unless she had not given birth yet and the stress of seeing her brother and others fight caused her to go into labor? Any thoughts??

[TheZone]

I think so I think it was said that Elia had to stay in bed a week after his birth because it almost killed her.

That was what I was getting at!

[TheZone]

I thought Lyanna yelled out to Ned before the fighting started, but someone on a different post stated he was hallucinating and the voice he heard was one of his staff trying to wake him from his milk of the poppy daze. After reading the chapter again I had a few thoughts. if Ned, heard Lyanna at the Window how could she be there if she was later found in a pool of blood? Unless she had not given birth yet and the stress of seeing her brother and others fight caused her to go into labor? Any thoughts??

Her death would have not happened that quickly. Ned's memories are foggy all of this happened 14 years before.

[mindchap]

Im not exactly condemning him, I am just questioning why people view his actions positively. I am a flip flopper on him, tough I never view what he did as a good or right thing.

Well good and right are extremely fuzzy lines in these books. I like Rhaegar and the Targs but I did not like them all that much until I read the D&E tales, then they moved right up to the head of my faves next to the Starks, actually they're pretty much neck and neck as my favorite Houses, I know that may be cliche but that's just how I feel. I don't think Rhaegar left Elia dying, I think she was just told that more children could possibly kill her, but I have to think that if she were anything like Arianne, for example, I don't think she had as much of a problem with it as we may think or if she was like Oberyn she may have had no prob with it at all. And considering the horrible way she died, I doubt there are any characters that are going to say anything that may put her in a bad light so we may never know and that may be one of those things that GRRM leaves up to the reader, but I would really love to know one way or the other myself.

[Ser No One]

People who knew Rhaegar personally had only good things to say about him

I'm sure if he was a dick his reputation would be different. Like it was with Joffrey when he was just a prince.

People that were around him must have seen the way treated others and little things like that. And the smallfolk also liked him, I guess he wasn't an arrogant asshole and was nice to them.

Everybody liked him, no doubt he was very nice and respectful.

That doesn't mean he didn't kidnap Lyanna against her will, shamed his wife at a very public event, and abandoned his family during a war...

Then again, maybe he had reasons for doing this, but the fact that he was a great guy doesn't prove he couldn't do something utterly crazy to accomplish the prophecy ;)

I believe we'll get the truth (or part of it) from the Reeds, who seem to know that story...

[Nami]

Everybody liked him, no doubt he was very nice and respectful.

That doesn't mean he didn't kidnap Lyanna against her will, shamed his wife at a very public event, and abandoned his family during a war...

Then again, maybe he had reasons for doing this, but the fact that he was a great guy doesn't prove he couldn't do something utterly crazy to accomplish the prophecy ;)

I believe we'll get the truth (or part of it) from the Reeds, who seem to know that story...

Yes, but it's intriguing (at least to me) how a totally apparently normal guy suddenly goes like "screw this I'm gonna rebel" and acts out of character

Even more considering that one of his main qualities is that he was dutiful, according to Selmy.

This is why everyone wonders what made him do it

[TheZone]

Yes, but it's intriguing (at least to me) how a totally apparently normal guy suddenly goes like "screw this I'm gonna rebel" and acts out of character

Even more considering that one of his main qualities is that he was dutiful, according to Selmy.

This is why everyone wonders what made him do it

The books indicate that he stopped being "normal", the moment he became focused on the prophecy.