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Dating 4.0 Everyone is crazy. I am Spock.


Lily Valley

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I've noted this same thing before - that guys who go from zero to "I want to marry you" with that sort of speed are very often participating in some kind of emotional manipulation that's calculated to flatter while deflecting attention away from any sort of potential honest appraisal of the reality of the relationship. Not trying to be a buzzkill, just saying that there are definitely guys who recognize that to some women, the most attractive thing they can be is to be really into them, and so they fake it as a game in much the same way as those disgusting PUG assholes do.

Meh, what's creepy and annoying to one woman can be exciting and attractive to another. I judge heavily beta male behaviour all the time because I believe it makes the world worse for all men (and probably women), however, objectively speaking it can be no less successful than other models.

As for manipulation, guess what: everyone manipulates, one way or another.

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@ PA - What do you mean by beta male? What qualifies a person as a beta male iyo? I only ask because I only recall seeing the alpha/beta terms thrown around in dark pockets of the internet in really cringe-worthy ways. When people are talking about humans, anyhow. I don't know how to explain it well, but I kinda feel like I'm hearing a dog whistle or something and I don't want to cast side eyes unfairly.

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Meh, what's creepy and annoying to one woman can be exciting and attractive to another. I judge heavily beta male behaviour all the time because I believe it makes the world worse for all men (and probably women), however, objectively speaking it can be no less successful than other models.

As for manipulation, guess what: everyone manipulates, one way or another.

This is, in a word, horseshit. Yes, behavior that can be creepy and annoying to one woman can be exciting and attractive to another. That's kind of the whole point of this thing we're talking about: a guy will seek out a woman who's excited by the prospect of a guy that falls head over heels for her from the start, and then will cynically feign that behavior with the goal of manipulating that woman to a place of intimacy, both physical and emotional, more quickly than they would otherwise see as normal.

And yes, everyone manipulates, one way or another. So what? Are you saying that this makes all forms of manipulation equally acceptable? Because there's some frankly horrifying bullshit you're going to fall for if you go down that road.

I'm also interested in what precisely you mean by "beta male". In my experiences that's language that, in this context, is primarily used by so-called "alphas" that use that term to describe a man who believes and accepts that any degree of lying or emotional manipulation is justified if it results in a woman being willing to fuck them.

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@ PA - What do you mean by beta male? What qualifies a person as a beta male iyo? I only ask because I only recall seeing the alpha/beta terms thrown around in dark pockets of the internet in really cringe-worthy ways. When people are talking about humans, anyhow. I don't know how to explain it well, but I kinda feel like I'm hearing a dog whistle or something and I don't want to cast side eyes unfairly.

Be advised that that guy has very nonstandard views about relationships and dating and everything related to them, and that therefore you may be looking for common understanding where none exists.

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Speechless, I am just speechless. I, I, I mean really after reading 12 pages of this, it is both entertaining and shocking. Where do some of you find these kinds of people?

I don't know dating on a whole tends to suck to begin with. I don't mean going out on a date with someone you are already with for a romantic evening or what not. But dating total strangers who you don't know and then being surprised when they do something wierd is beyond me. Of course they do surprising wierd shit, they are total strangers. "Gosh I can't believe this total stranger who I have known a week did something I didn't expect." Of course they did you don't know them at all.

What ever happened to taking things slow, getting to know a person over an extended period of time and being yourself? Honestly most dates I have had with people I don't know are BS. Your on your best behaviour acting like you normally wouldn't, trying to put on on a image of who youwant them to see. I quit that type of dating a long time ago. I would ask women out based on how they looked or having met them in a bar and known them all of 15 minutes. Then I would go on these dates with them after a couple of phone calls (still better than texting) and be like yeah she is atractive and I do want to hook up but everytime she talks I want to bash my head into a wall. They probably felt the same way.

So I stopped doing that. I only go out with women I know, and have known for an extended period of time and who I met through friends and who I already know pretty well. A friend of mine says I want to hook you up with with someone I know and my only response is yeah we can all hang out but I am not going on a blind date. Actually I only date one person currently and we have been together for awhile. But we knew eachother well for a long time before getting together.

Dating strangers is a crap shoot at best.

Also this whole texting thing I kept reading about. Sure I text but, a phone call is so much better, I want to here the persons voice. Texting booty calls from strangers, how impersonal is that?

"Yeah hey just wanted to text you to tell you how great it has been getting to know you over these two weeks, lol. I just happen to be :drunk: in your neighborhood at 3am, lets hook up for a little :leer: and maybe some :whip: if your into that kind of stuff. What do you say babe? Your so hot and I totally miss you after only knowing you a week or is two weeks, I don't know it's been so long. So what do you say, how about a litttle :smileysex: and afterwards we can :smoking: cause I totally :love: you now buzz me up cause I am so :drool: for your body, ummm I mean your mind. Lets do this :thumbsup: babe."

Seriously this kind of shit works now?

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"Yeah hey just wanted to text you to tell you how great it has been getting to know you over these two weeks, lol. I just happen to be :drunk: in your neighborhood at 3am, lets hook up for a little :leer: and maybe some :whip: if your into that kind of stuff. What do you say babe? Your so hot and I totally miss you after only knowing you a week or is two weeks, I don't know it's been so long. So what do you say, how about a litttle :smileysex: and afterwards we can :smoking: cause I totally :love: you now buzz me up cause I am so :drool: for your body, ummm I mean your mind. Lets do this :thumbsup: babe."

I fail to see this going over well in a phone call or text.

I actually think the ability to add emoticons might aid in the delivery of this particular set of lines.

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On the other hand, in text mistakes are clearly visible. Bad grammar is a suprisingly large turn-off for some of us. If I'm going to get a bullshit 'had a great time, I'll call you' note in the morning, incorrect punctuation just adding insult to injury.

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I fail to see this going over well in a phone call or text.

I actually think the ability to add emoticons might aid in the delivery of this particular set of lines.

You would think, but I sent it out and it is working just fine. Granted the only 3 people I sent that two are my significant other who told me to "use my key to get in cause that's what it is for, and she is calling dibs on the whip." Her best friend who is a good friend of mine who responded with "LMAO your so getting lucky with that." And my boss who is also my commander keeps winking at me and telling me how pretty I am, although she can't keep a straight face.

Which goes to show if you know someone well enough and you get them you can enjoy even the worst of their stupidity."

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On the other hand, in text mistakes are clearly visible. Bad grammar is a suprisingly large turn-off for some of us. If I'm going to get a bullshit 'had a great time, I'll call you' note in the morning, incorrect punctuation just adding insult to injury.

You mean "'if'" text mistakes are clearly visible" Proper grammar would also probably dictate "I am" instead of I'm and incorrect punctuation just "adds" insult to injury. Just use those little happy face things, then you don't need words. Words are totally overrated, now you can just use pictures like intelligent people like myself do and some primates who want a piece of fruit or a cookie. The irony is that I am doing this on my Ipad, where I point to an icon when I want it to do something. I am so sad, I just realized am about one step up from Coco the chimp.

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I don't really use the term "alpha".

There are beta males and men.

Beta males:

1. Indirectly perpetuate myth of male as primary provider by trying to buy affection

2. Think of women as being inherently more important/valuable than themselves/men in general

3. A result of 2: believe that men have to "chase" women because they are lower worth

Men:

1. Not beta males

There are also "better men" - a natural evolution point for those who desire it.

Unfortunately, because there are far more beta males than men, what happens is a prisoner's dilemma type situation where men have to play a game that's similar to beta males', thus continuing to perpetuate everything that's wrong with dating these days.

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You mean "'if'" text mistakes are clearly visible" Proper grammar would also probably dictate "I am" instead of I'm and incorrect punctuation just "adds" insult to injury.

No, I don't. I mean what I said, that when you communicate in text, mistakes are clearly visible. I did, however, accidentally miss out a word in the final sentence.

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Seriously this kind of shit works now?

Not on me. I found it presumptuous at best and invasive at worst. On the other hand, I'm coming to realize in my old age, I'm more stand-offish and private than most people.

Now if the :whip: had been offered, I might have been more inclined to respond. :laugh:

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I don't really use the term "alpha".

There are beta males and men.

Beta males:

1. Indirectly perpetuate myth of male as primary provider by trying to buy affection

2. Think of women as being inherently more important/valuable than themselves/men in general

3. A result of 2: believe that men have to "chase" women because they are lower worth

Men:

1. Not beta males

There are also "better men" - a natural evolution point for those who desire it.

Unfortunately, because there are far more beta males than men, what happens is a prisoner's dilemma type situation where men have to play a game that's similar to beta males', thus continuing to perpetuate everything that's wrong with dating these days.

My. What an inane series of generalizations. Curious that you would avoid the use of the term "alpha" but use "beta" so regularly, when in sociological terms, "beta" only really has meaning as a basis of comparison for an "alpha". Changing the terms or not, this is all pretty classic PUG primer BS, particularly the resentment toward the feeling of males having to "chase" women (pro top: it's not because said guys feel that women are of intrinsically "higher" value per se, it's just a useful metaphor for romantic pursuits in general, and it goes both ways).

Let me take a couple of wild guesses: 1 - you see value in the concept of "negging", which is to say, deliberately eroding a woman's self-esteem as a tool to make them more likely to sleep with you, and 2 - your measure a woman's value primarily by their willingness to have sex with you (in other words, you find little or no value in a woman that will not have sex with you).

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My. What an inane series of generalizations. Curious that you would avoid the use of the term "alpha" but use "beta" so regularly, when in sociological terms, "beta" only really has meaning as a basis of comparison for an "alpha". Changing the terms or not, this is all pretty classic PUG primer BS, particularly the resentment toward the feeling of males having to "chase" women (pro top: it's not because said guys feel that women are of intrinsically "higher" value per se, it's just a useful metaphor for romantic pursuits in general, and it goes both ways).

Probably because I completely disagree with the common definition of "alpha". Beta to me simply means secondary so that's what I use. I can also use "crappy men" if that's what you prefer.

I don't get the second part of your paragraph, elaborate.

Let me take a couple of wild guesses: 1 - you see value in the concept of "negging", which is to say, deliberately eroding a woman's self-esteem as a tool to make them more likely to sleep with you, and 2 - your measure a woman's value primarily by their willingness to have sex with you (in other words, you find little or no value in a woman that will not have sex with you).

1. I occasionally bring people off pedestals, though I don't discriminate between genders. If they deserve it, they deserve it. Not sure if that's what you are asking though. If you are asking about situations where I'd like to sleep with a woman, I'd typically use my good looks and white boy swagger to win her over rather than some psychological tricks. There are very few better men than me in the city I live, so it's not too difficult.

2. Not at all. What gave you this idea? I actually don't care about sex very much (which is ironic considering my polyamorous lifestyle). Sex is more of a byproduct of pleasant interaction to me personally. Possibly because I've had so much of it, including porn star quality, I might have become desensitized. Which I think is a good thing, I don't like to be controlled by my penis.

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Probably because I completely disagree with the common definition of "alpha". Beta to me simply means secondary so that's what I use. I can also use "crappy men" if that's what you prefer.

I don't get the second part of your paragraph, elaborate.

1. I occasionally bring people off pedestals, though I don't discriminate between genders. If they deserve it, they deserve it. Not sure if that's what you are asking though. If you are asking about situations where I'd like to sleep with a woman, I'd typically use my good looks and white boy swagger to win her over rather than some psychological tricks. There are very few better men than me in the city I live, so it's not too difficult.

2. Not at all. What gave you this idea? I actually don't care about sex very much (which is ironic considering my polyamorous lifestyle). Sex is more of a byproduct of pleasant interaction to me personally. Possibly because I've had so much of it, including porn star quality, I might have become desensitized. Which I think is a good thing, I don't like to be controlled by my penis.

I'm honestly curious about the two bolded parts ->

Please elaborate on the terms "white boy swagger" and "porn star quality sex".

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No, you'll just encourage him. I truly never knew anyone with such a non-standard view of relationships to be so damn judgmental about everyone who doesn't conform to his niche worldview.

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