Are Dragons really necessary in the fight against the Others?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

All 3 of Dany's dragons will be a force for evil.

But there may be other dragons out there .

Only in Asshai

[Consigliere]

Why?

If Jon is AAR I dont see what purpose it will serve to have Dany at the Wall. Her story would be better served in the South fighting for the IT since thats been her goal since AGOT.

[TheMysteriousOne]

If Jon is AAR I dont see what purpose it will serve to have Dany at the Wall. Her story would be better served in the South fighting for the IT since thats been her goal since AGOT.

I've always believed that after everything is said and done in the South, Dany will head North to address the Others. I normally don't use the tv show to argue materials from the book, but I've always liked the HOTU visions in the tv show. In GOT, Dany reaches for the IT but doesn't take it and then she heads north. I think that Jon and Dany will meet as equals and that they may come to some sort of accord.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I've always believed that after everything is said and done in the South, Dany will head North to address the Others. I normally don't use the tv show to argue materials from the book, but I've always liked the HOTU visions in the tv show. In GOT, Dany reaches for the IT but doesn't take it and them she heads north.

She also crosses the Wall and sees dead people, which implies to me that if she goes to the Wall, she'll die there. One can hope.

[Morienthar]

I think the dragons will die in the initial attack by the others taking a dozen or so of the others with them,Fire and Ice aren't Good and Evil,They are just opposing forces that will destroy one another.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Ice perserves, fire consumes... Now, we are talking semantics. How much ice or fire can save your life.

Depends on the situation. Are you alone at night on a snowy mountaintop? If you don't want to die of hypothermia, you better have a fire. Do you have a carcass you want to eat but don't want to get sick and die from it? Then you need to cook it. Fire brings so much more then just destruction, if used properly.

I mean, earth and water is connected with the life, better than fire.

The sun is made of fire, and no life could exist without that.

I don't see how weapons of mass destruction such as dragons can be ever seen as pro-life.

I don't see how living breathing creatures with awareness can be considered "weapons of mass destruction."

No, in my equasion both Others and dragons are enemies. The balance can not exist while poles are so strong.

Poles ARE balance! They exist to cancel each-other out. That's kind of the whole idea of poles.

I actually see dragons fighting political war on the South, killing each other, while North deals with Others.

You see a very disappointing end to the series then. Seven books haven't been building up to "who will win the political war?" The Others were introduced in the very first chapter of the very first book and they are coming for EVERYONE. Night is falling on the whole planet. After all that... it's just a local dispute? What a let-down.

And, as Apple Martini once stated about dragons, between me being eater and eaten, I choose eater... Dragons are truly beasts...

Which is worse: the beast who was born a beast or the beast who CHOOSES to be beastly? Because if it's the later, then the wargs are much, much more sinister then dragons. Wargs are people who choose to borrow claws and fangs to kill and devour in ways no human ever could. Plus their domination of nature makes meat-puppets out of anything that isn't THEM, even other humans, and yet these people aren't too dangerous to be allowed to live? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Consigliere]

She also crosses the Wall and sees dead people, which implies to me that if she goes to the Wall, she'll die there. One can hope.

Given Danys journey thus far we know she likes to take her sweet time. By the time she gets to the Wall everyone will be dead or Other'ed.

[Mladen]

Depends on the situation. Are you alone at night on a snowy mountaintop? If you don't want to die of hypothermia, you better have a fire. Do you have a carcass you want to eat but don't want to get sick and die from it? Then you need to cook it. Fire brings so much more then just destruction, if used properly.

Yes, it depends on situation... Should we try with Sahara, where Sun's heat (as you cleverly noted made of fire) can kill you easily? These examples serve no purpose in this conversation.

The sun is made of fire, and no life could exist without that.

True, but life itself is connected with water on Earth. Without water there is no life, or we would have aliens on Mercury or Venus. And ice is water

I don't see how living breathing creatures with awareness can be considered "weapons of mass destruction."

Ask the poor souls of Field of Fire...

Poles ARE balance! They exist to cancel each-other out. That's kind of the whole idea of poles.

And what would happen if you take one out of equasion? And that is what you would do if yoyu destroy Others.

You see a very disappointing end to the series then. Seven books haven't been building up to "who will win the political war?" The Others were introduced in the very first chapter of the very first book and they are coming for EVERYONE. Night is falling on the whole planet. After all that... it's just a local dispute? What a let-down.

I see humans battling on 2 fronts. Against Others, and against magic in particular through dragons. I see the end in which humanity will prevail over magic.

Which is worse: the beast who was born a beast or the beast who CHOOSES to be beastly? Because if it's the later, then the wargs are much,much more sinister then dragons. Wargs are people who choose to borrow claws and fangs to kill and devour in ways no human ever could. Plus their domination of nature makes meat-puppets out of anything that isn't THEM, even other humans, and yet these people aren't too dangerous to be allowed to live? That doesn't make sense to me.

As I know, wargs don't usually eat human flesh. Between humans, and uncontrollable beasts, I am on human side. Your comparison between dragons and wargs is simply wrong. Dany's misguided idea that her dragons are charming pets led to the death of a girl... U derestimating the threat dragons can be in the future, is simply too optimistic for my taste.

[Alhazred]

Only in Asshai

Nope. There was one seen flying from Winterfell. There is probably one at Dragonstone. And who knows where else. These may possibly be the dragons hatched at Summerhall.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Nope. There was one seen flying from Winterfell. There is probably one at Dragonstone. And who knows where else. These may possibly be the dragons hatched at Summerhall.

:drunk:

[Alhazred]

:drunk:

What do you think caused the fall of Storm's End? It wasn't one of Dany's dragons.

[Mist Isle]

Dragons are not necessary to defeat the Others, but are very likely quite useful to have against them and their wights. The dragons will probably clash with the Others and the wights at least once, but will not singly handily defeat the Others. The remnants of the Night's Watch, utilizing obsidian weapons, will also make major contributions in fighting the Others. Bran will also take part.

If there is a clash involving dragons and Others at the Trident, possibly foreshadowed by the Dany dream of ASoS, then the Others will probably retreat northwards after sustaining a loss near King's Landing. The colder the lands, the harder it is to defeat the Others. This would present a problem for the Dany led forces, who need to consolidate and wait before risking a fight with the Others on ground in which they are very powerful (and possibly facing continued opposition from other human factions).

Jon and Bran will probably make most of their contributions in fighting Others in the more northern regions.

The Others are usually deemed a threat to humanity and the dragons will be revealed as a peril to all life on the planet. These considerations will ultimately lead both to be destroyed or removed from the Seven Kingdoms.

By the end of the story, the dragons will probably all be dead (Drogon will likely be killed by a dragon-slayer, possibly Samwell Tarly and/or Jaqen H'ghar). Guesses for the fates of the other two: Euron will kill one (but will in turn be killed) and the other will die in Dorne fighting against the Martells and their allies. The dragons are a weapon that would slowly incinerate the world and thus are destroyed to avert this fate.

The Others will be defeated and cease to threaten humanity (perhaps eventually becoming extinct or possibly facing sudden destruction by some event in the heart of the Lands of Always Winter).

[The Idiots Lantern]

Yes, it depends on situation... Should we try with Sahara, where Sun's heat (as you cleverly noted made of fire) can kill you easily? These examples serve no purpose in this conversation.

I bring up examples of fire bringing more then just "destruction" and you want to claim it serves no purpose? Your whole thesis was that fire brings nothing but ruin. It's just plain not true.

True, but life itself is connected with water on Earth. Without water there is no life, or we would have aliens on Mercury or Venus. And ice is water.

Without the sun, there'd be no life on Earth either. You need water/ice AND fire to have life. The fire has to turn the ice into water which the sun causes to evaporate into the sky as moisture where it can make clouds and fall back on the earth as rain, where some of it will freeze... it's a cycle, and it needs both pieces.

Ask the poor souls of Field of Fire...

Dragons didn't do that. The humans commanding the dragons did that. And you're right, humans ARE weapons of mass destruction.

And what would happen if you take one out of equasion? And that is what you would do if you destroy Others.

Do you believe the Others will really be destroyed without the aid of fire? And what do you have if BOTH are dead? Nature abhors a vacuum.

I see humans battling on 2 fronts. Against Others, and against magic in particular through dragons. I see the end in which humanity will prevail over magic.

In which case the wargs are dead. They are magic. They wear the garb of beasts. They control anything they wish. They can spy and overcome and dominate. Animals never have an agenda: they want to eat and sleep and kill the things that want to kill them. Humans do all of those things.

As I know, wargs don't usually eat human flesh.

Nymeria sure did when she killed those Bolton men. Whether she did that or Arya did it while inside her, it sure happened. The scary thing about wargs is they bring out the animal in the human. Bran spent weeks killing and eating as Summer while his real body wasted away in the crypts and he loved the feel of the hot blood in his mouth and running with his smaller wolf brothers.

Between humans, and uncontrollable beasts, I am on human side.

Wrong answer. An animal won't kill you unless there's something in it for them (like a meal.) A human will kill you for any number of reasons, including "just because."

Your comparison between dragons and wargs is simply wrong.

Your refusal to see that the wargs use of greenmagic is at the very least equivalent to use of a dragon in terms of the "dangerous magic" scale. A dragon may roast and eat you, but at least that's straightforward. Not like what a powerful warg could do to you. He/she could make fathers kill their own families. Make Lords order the deaths of their entire courts. Set crows and beasts on anyone, have eyes or ears anywhere, see and hear everything.... and they can't even be reliably killed. And it's human, so it has all a human's prejudices, ambitions, and cruelties.

Dany's misguided idea that her dragons are charming pets led to the death of a girl...

Based on the word of one man, but I'm not going through that again.... Maybe the girl threw a rock at the dragon and the dragon got angry. Maybe the dragon was simply hungry. Either way, it didn't kill the girl just because it wanted her dead. Only humans kill for THAT reason.

U derestimating the threat dragons can be in the future, is simply too optimistic for my taste.

And you are underestimating the malice posed by an evil warg.

I'm not saying we'll see an "evil" warg, mind you, but I'm saying if you want to eliminate dangerous magic from the world, it doesn't make sense to call for the death of the dragons and yet continue to trust that all the wargs will always be good and noble people who just want to save the world and protect their families and stuff.

Basically I don't think this is going to be a story of humans vs. magic. There's too many humans who already use magic and who would be considered evil if the theme turned that way. Magic beat back the Others last time. Magic built the Wall that's kept the land safe. I think, in the end, this will be a story of Life vs. Death. Both dragonriders and wargs use the power of nature to their own ends. I think, or hope, will be a case of magic uniting everything living, human and animal (and wierwood tree), to fight for life against darkness and ruination.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Dragons are representative of death, chaos and destruction, as well as rebirth, renewal and regeneration in ASOIAF.

[NorthRemembers10]

I would say that Dragons may not be essential but I bet it would make it a lot easier then fighting them with whatever remains of Dragonglass they can find.

[Mr. Wolf]

Although, I too think Dany and The Others' paths will not cross.

:agree:

Yep.

Dragons will win her Westeros. The Newest Last Hero / Azor Ahai / TPTWP will defeat the Others (IMO it's Jon, but who knows)

I think people over-simplify the story by thinking/hoping that there is some Good vs Evil, Fire vs Ice, Other vs Dragon, ultimate death match looming at the end of the story.

The novels are call The Song of Ice and Fire, not the Epic Armageddon Final Showdown Battle Royale: Ice vs Fire

GRRM is distinctly different from JRRT. It would be a huge let down imo, if this story ended like Hobbit or LotR (massive battle to decide the fate of the world)

(I may devote an entire post to this)