Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 He was a winner and a genuinely good person. Some people enjoy pointing out flaws in what others assume to be good/honorable etc. That's as plain and simple as you can make it.Ultimately, for his relatively minor "cock-ups", he paid the heaviest price imaginable. I find it hard to be overly critical of Robb, comparatively, as many other characters get off much easier for their far more grievous crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd fetch me the boo box Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why does everyone misconstrue comments mentioning what a person did wrong as hate for that person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why does everyone misconstrue comments mentioning what a person did wrong as hate for that person?I think it is just a term that is congruent with critical, at this point haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Two words:Love potion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakeTheDragon Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Because people grossly overstate how marrying Westerling was some massive blunder that cost him everything. If his best bud Theon doesn't royally screw him things would have played out a lot different. Even after that if Cat doesn't release Jamie the Red Wedding doesn't happen. Robb's only major blunder was trusting his best friend and his mom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Because people grossly overstate how marrying Westerling was some massive blunder that cost him everything. If his best bud Theon doesn't royally screw him things would have played out a lot different. Even after that if Cat doesn't release Jamie the Red Wedding doesn't happen. Robb's only major blunder was trusting his best friend and his mom.Well, it did cost him everything, that's what so funny about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usrnmhsnomning Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well, it did cost him everything, that's what so funny about it.Well, the parts you didn't bold played just as large a part in the events of the Red Wedding occurring, making your statement incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-canon Name Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well, the parts you didn't bold played just as large a part in the events of the Red Wedding occurring, making your statement incorrect.If I had a glove I'd slap you with it. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well, the parts you didn't bold played just as large a part in the events of the Red Wedding occurring, making your statement incorrect.You know the red wedding never would've happened at all if he didn't marry Westerling right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 You know the red wedding never would've happened at all if he didn't marry Westerling right?It also wouldn't have happened if Walder Frey wasn't an ass-clown. Trying to put the RW on a single specific reason isn't really fair to the efforts and intrigue that it took to pull off the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It also wouldn't have happened if Walder Frey wasn't an ass-clown. Trying to put the RW on a single specific reason isn't really fair to the efforts and intrigue that it took to pull off the RW.If there was no need to have an actual wedding at the twins for Edmure and whats-her-face, why would there be a red wedding? You could argue that for Robb's planned marriage with the Frey girl there would also be a Red wedding, but it was a royal marriage so I doubt anyone would have accepted to be at a castle so lowly as the twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-canon Name Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 If there was no need to have an actual wedding at the twins for Edmure and whats-her-face, why would there be a red wedding? You could argue that for Robb's planned marriage with the Frey girl there would also be a Red wedding, but it was a royal marriage so I doubt anyone would have accepted to be at a castle so lowly as the twins.Yeah, Robb's oath-breaking seems to have been the lynchpin for his families slaughter. I mean...it's clearly spelled out and stated by the Dope Walder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 If there was no need to have an actual wedding at the twins for Edmure and whats-her-face, why would there be a red wedding? You could argue that for Robb's planned marriage with the Frey girl there would also be a Red wedding, but it was a royal marriage so I doubt anyone would have accepted to be at a castle so lowly as the twins.I meant more that there were a number of things outside of the RW that would not have made it possible. The marriage of Edmure and Roslin made it possible. If Edmure doesn't consent, no RW. Roose Bolton not being in on it. The stars basically aligned for Tywin, Walder and Co. to set it up. Specifically saying that marrying Westerling was the only reason seems short-sighted and blatantly denying the level of subterfuge that it actually took to pull of the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usrnmhsnomning Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 You know the red wedding never would've happened at all if he didn't marry Westerling right?Or if the Ironborn hadn't invaded the North. Or if Jaime hadn't been released. Or if Stannis had won on the Blackwater. Or if Robb had met and defeated Tywin in the field. It's very shortsighted to think the Freys actually hinged their entire revenge purely off of one broken betrothal as opposed to a collection of events leading them to believe they were on a sinking ship and wanted off. And it's also shortsighted to think the Freys wouldn't have betrayed Robb if all these events occurred bar the betrothal breaking. They wanted his claim on the North, take a look at what they are doing right now to Edmure. Who's to say they wouldn't have done the exact same thing to Robb so long as Tywin and Roose were on their side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Of the Stuff that Robb had complete and utter control over, marrying the Westerling for honors sake was what damned him. That is why people blame him for the red wedding. He had no reason to doubt Theon's loyalty, Catelyn released Jaime, Stannis lost on the blackwater, Edmure cost him a victory at Stonemill. Love is lovely as the poets say, and love is what got Robb killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 This quickly became a retarded argument. If Aerys had never been born, none of this would have happened. Reduction to absurdity. Walder killed Robb and all the rest because, accorder to Walder himself, Robb fucked the Freys. Simple.You don't have to take it to absurdity. You do however, have to look at the pertinent facts. There was a lot more that went in to the RW than just Robb fucking the Freys. How does that explain Roose Bolton? The whole thing is not possible without him. It helps that Robb fucked the Freys but it certainly doesn't mean that the said fucking was the only reason. The plan to fuck Robb was in development before he went West. This just gave them the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-canon Name Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 You don't have to take it to absurdity. You do however, have to look at the pertinent facts. There was a lot more that went in to the RW than just Robb fucking the Freys. How does that explain Roose Bolton? The whole thing is not possible without him. It helps that Robb fucked the Freys but it certainly doesn't mean that the said fucking was the only reason.The plan to fuck Robb was in development before he went West. This just gave them the opportunity.Roose couldn't have done anything, nor could Lannister, unless Robb marries this bitch. Simple. It's the reason Robb agreed to marry a Frey in the first place, so compete against the other houses. How is this so baffling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usrnmhsnomning Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 . Love is lovely as the poets say, and love is what got Robb killed.Again, had Robb not married Jeyne and married a Frey, he'd still be losing the war and the Freys and the Boltons would still betray him to save their skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Of the Stuff that Robb had complete and utter control over, marrying the Westerling for honors sake was what damned him. That is why people blame him for the red wedding. He had no reason to doubt Theon's loyalty, Catelyn released Jaime, Stannis lost on the blackwater, Edmure cost him a victory at Stonemill. Love is lovely as the poets say, and love is what got Robb killed.I get what you are saying, I honestly do. No one is denying that Robb played a part in his own demise. The argument is over how big of a part he actually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 You're welcome to your wrong opinion, I really don't mind. But to actually dismiss what I've said as "retarded" and "absurd" because you think a one liner from Walder trumps all the evidence GRRM blatantly laid out in Arya's, Brienne's, Jaime's and Tyrions PoVs is a joke is even more short-sighted than everything else said in this thread.Your opinion is wrong and yet you cling to it to like a drowning man clings to a bit of furniture in freezing water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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