The Food Code of Ice and Fire

[shadow282]

This seems a little far-fetched to me. Take boar for instance. Sure, there are some good examples of it showing regime change. But what about all the times boar is mentioned that don't have anything to do with that?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This seems a little far-fetched to me. Take boar for instance. Sure, there are some good examples of it showing regime change. But what about all the times boar is mentioned that don't have anything to do with that?

I just looked up mentions of "boar" in the first book. It's either used in direct reference to Robert's incident (which fits the theory), the Winterfell hunt (right before Bran is pushed off the tower) or to reference the Crakehall sigil specifically. So it's not like the book is drowning in other boar references and we just picked that one out.

[shadow282]

I just looked up mentions of "boar" in the first book. It's either used in direct reference to Robert's incident (which fits the theory), the Winterfell hunt (right before Bran is pushed off the tower) or to reference the Crakehall sigil specifically. So it's not like the book is drowning in other boar references and we just picked that one out.

Boar is mentioned at the Tourney of the King where there's no regime change. It's also mentioned at least half a dozen times in Clash not referring to any kind of change. I'm sure there's as many or more in the other books but I haven't checked. Don't those examples all count against your theory?

[Seams]

I thought the boar was acknowledged as a reference to Cersei. The singer punished by Joffrey for writing a parody song about Robert's death made that connection. But Robert ordered that the boar be served as the main dish at his funeral. Maybe we have yet to see that aspect of Cersei's fate come into play.

On a different, food-related subject: I am listening to the audio of AFFC and just heard the introduction of Prince Doran. His gout-plagued joints are all compared to fruit: one knee is a melon, another is an apple (if I recall correctly), toes are something else. This thread had discussed his strong association with blood oranges, but I think that has to be examined along with these other fruit associations. Maybe the falling blood oranges represent his murdered family members, and the painful joints represent his hidden desire for vengeance? He is carrying around his anger about the deaths of his brother and sister and nephew and niece?

[Vertigo344]

May I just start with: this is a fantastic thread! It has inspired many re-reads of missed symbolism. However the first time I noticed a connection to GRRM's use of food wasn't necessarily the specific item but the cooking preparation of Tryion's love of "black bread and burnt bacon". At first I thought this could be an insight to his bitterness of being born a dwarf or his mistreatment by Tywin. Could this be all? Or could it also be a reference to the theory of Tryion being one of the dragon'a three heads?

[Isobel Harper]

I've come to the conclusion that lemons symbolize truth. Sansa's preference for lemoncakes depict her tendency to "sugar" the truth.

Lemons are commonly associated with Dorne, which is thought to be Jon's true birth place. Lem Lemoncloak is commonly theorized to be Richard Lonmouth, Rhaegar Targaryens squire. He might also now something of importance about the events around Robert's Rebellion concerning Rhaegar and Lyanna.

I also theorized in another thread that ginger is an omen of death.

It's first appearance takes place when Tyrion is introduced to the wildfire that he will later utilize against Stannis' fleet.

ACoK Tyrion V:

They were under the hills of Rhaenys, behind the Guild of the Alchemists. The damp stone walls were splotchy with nitre, and the only light came from the sealed iron-and-glass oil lamp that Hallyne the Pryomancer was carried so gingerly. Gingerly indeed ...and these would be ginger jars.

It also appears in association with Jaqen H'ghar, the Faceless Man that befriends Arya, as he asks her choose three deaths to appease the Red God.

ACoK Arya VII:

He laid a finger on her lips. "Three lives shall you have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder." He kissed her hair softly. "But not too long."

By the time Arya lit her stub of a candle, only a faint smell remained of him, a whiff of ginger and cloves lingering in the air.

Tyrion eats ginger-spiced food during the infamous "Purple Wedding."

ASoS Tyrion VIII:

Tyrion suffered through it [Collio Quaynis of Tyrosh's singing] with a double helping of honey-ginger partridge and several cups of wine.

Ginger in this case might foreshadow Jon Connington's soon-to-come infection with greyscale or possibly that Illyrio's plot to put Aegon on the throne will ultimately lead to the latter's death.

ADwD Tyrion III:
"There is a gift for the boy [Aegon] in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it."

Daenerys is eating ginger soup just before she encounters the first case of the Pale Mare.

ADwD Daenerys V:

But there was much and more to fear as she learned that evening. As her young hostages Miklaz and Kazmya were laying out a simple supper of autumn greens and ginger soup for her, Irra came to tell her that Galazza Galare had returned, with three Blue Graces from the temple. "Grey Worm is come as well, Khaleesi. They beg words with you, most urgently."

...

Grey Worm began the tale. "He came out of the morning mists, a rider on a pale mare, dying. Her rider was staggering as he approached the city gates, her sides pink with blood and lather, her eyes rolling with terror. Her rider called out, 'She is burning, she is burning,' and fell from the saddle. This one was sent for, and gave orders that the rider be brought to the Blue Graces. When your servants carried him inside the gates, he cried out again, 'She is burning." Under his tokar he was a skeleton, all bones and fevered flesh."

There's also a mention of "ginger" in one of Areo Hotah's chapters. I can't pinpoint what exactly it might be foreshadowing, but most likely it's Hotah himself.

AFFC Captian of the Guard:
He sat upon the narrow bed and found his whetstone and oilcloth in their niche, and set to work. Keep your longaxe sharp, the bearded priests had told him, the day they branded him. He always did. ... [remembering Norvos] The taste of wintercake filled his mouth again, rich with ginger and pine nuts and bits of cherry. ... Only when both edges were sharp enough to shave with did the captain lay his ash-and-iron wife down on the bed. ... I should have gathered up the oranges* that fell, he thought, and went to sleep thinking of the tart sweet taste of them, and the sticky feel of the red juice on his fingers.

(*the blood oranges in the garden)

[Fox fur cloak]

From Alayne's sample chapter for TWOW:

Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord. From the rivers and the lakes came pike and trout and salmon, from the seas crabs and cod and herring. Ducks there were, and capons, peacocks in their plumage and swans in almond milk. Suckling pigs were served up crackling with apples in their mouths, and [b{three huge aurochs were roasted whole above firepits in the castle yard, since they were too big to get through the kitchen doors. Loaves of hot bread filled the trestle tables in Lord Nestors hall, and massive wheels of cheese were brought up from the vaults. The butter was fresh-churned, and there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips. And best of all, Lord Nestors cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, a lemon cake in the shape of the Giants Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar.

For me, Alayne thought, as they wheeled it out. Sweetrobin loved lemon cakes too, but only after she told him that they were her favorites. The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more.

What struck me was how similar this is to Joffrey's wedding feast. There are 64 dishes for the 64 competitors (resulting in 8 champions), vs. 77 dishes for 7 gods. The description of the food is almost worded as if the dishes are the competitors. There is also the conversation at the end of the chapter between Sansa and Harry regarding his mistress Saffron, and Sansa jokes about naming their child after spices too. And then of course there is the magnificent lemon cake. What does this represent? Since the whole event is based around Sweetrobin's Winged Knight tourney, perhaps it shows the triumph of fairy tales and childhood? Or does it show Sansa's new power?

[Isobel Harper]

In regards to almond milk, it is only mentioned 6 times in all of the Westeros-based stories. Each time it's mentioned, something terrible is about to happen. See here: http://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=almond+milk&scope[]=agot&scope[]=adwd&scope[]=twoiaf&scope[]=acok&scope[]=thk&scope[]=trp&scope[]=asos&scope[]=tss&scope[]=tpatq&scope[]=affc&scope[]=tmk

Here are the occurences of the term "almond milk" per chapter:

"river pike poached in almond milk" - ASoS Catelyn VII, the chapter the Red Wedding

"chopped mutton stewed in almond milk with carrots, raisins, and onions" and "leche of brawn, spiced with cinnamon, cloves, sugar, and almond milk" - ASoS Tyrion VIII, the chapter of the Purple Wedding

"Almond milk and onions." - AFFC Cersei VIII, a smell noted in Maggy's tent when Cersei dreams of the prophecy

"veal cutlets blanched with almond milk" - ADoD Tyrion I, a course at Illyrio's house that it mentioned right after Tyrion suspects Illyrio of trying to poison him. (May foreshadow something more tragic? :dunno: )

"salt pork, soaked in almond milk and peppered pleasantly" - The Mystery Knight, during the Butterwell-Frey wedding, whose tourney was a coverup for a Second Blackfyre Rebellion

[Isobel Harper]

From Alayne's sample chapter for TWOW:

What struck me was how similar this is to Joffrey's wedding feast. There are 64 dishes for the 64 competitors (resulting in 8 champions), vs. 77 dishes for 7 gods. The description of the food is almost worded as if the dishes are the competitors. There is also the conversation at the end of the chapter between Sansa and Harry regarding his mistress Saffron, and Sansa jokes about naming their child after spices too. And then of course there is the magnificent lemon cake. What does this represent? Since the whole event is based around Sweetrobin's Winged Knight tourney, perhaps it shows the triumph of fairy tales and childhood? Or does it show Sansa's new power?

Maybe it's coincidence or maybe GRRM likes these foods, but I'm noticing a lot of the same foods in your Sansa chapter excerpt and in a section of the wedding scene in the Mystery Knight.

Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord. From the rivers and the lakes came pike and trout and salmon, from the seas crabs and cod and herring. Ducks there were, and capons, peacocks in their plumage and swans in almond milk. Suckling pigs were served up crackling with apples in their mouths, and three huge aurochs were roasted whole above firepits in the castle yard, since they were too big to get through the kitchen doors. Loaves of hot bread filled the trestle tables in Lord Nestors hall, and massive wheels of cheese were brought up from the vaults. The butter was fresh-churned, and there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips. And best of all, Lord Nestors cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, a lemon cake in the shape of the Giants Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar.

Mercifully, the Fiddler's toast was the last. Lord Butterwell rose ponderously to thank them for coming and promise good jousting on the morrow. "Let the feast begin!" Suckling pig was served at the high table, a peacock roasted in its plumage, a great pike crusted with crushed almonds. Not a bite of that made it down below the salt. Instead of suckling pig, they got salt pork, soaked in almond milk and peppered pleasantly. In place of peacock, they had capons, crisped up nice and brown and stuffed with onions, herbs, mushrooms, and roasted chestnuts. In place of pike, they ate chunks of flaky white cod in a pastry coffyn, with some sort of tasty brown sauce that Dunk could not quite place. There was pease porridge besides, buttered turnips, carrots drizzled with honey, and a ripe white cheese that smelled as strong as Bennis of the Brown Shield. Dunk ate well, but all the while wondered what Egg was getting in the yard. Just in case, he slipped half a capon into the pocket of his cloak, with some hunks of bread and a little of the smelly cheese.

[Fox fur cloak]

Maybe it's coincidence or maybe GRRM likes these foods, but I'm noticing a lot of the same foods in your Sansa chapter excerpt and in a section of the wedding scene in the Mystery Knight.

Hm. There's a lot of similarities in Joffrey's wedding feast:

creamy soup of mushrooms and buttered snails … pastry coffyn filled with pork, pine nuts, and eggs … sweet-corn fritters and hot oatbread baked with bits of date, apple, and orange … the rib of a wild boar … trout cooked in a crust of crushed almonds … roast herons and cheese-and-onion pies … crabs boiled in fiery eastern spices, trenchers filled with chunks of chopped mutton stewed in almond milk with carrots, raisins, and onions, and fish tarts fresh from the ovens … honey-ginger partridge and several cups of wine … peacocks were served whole in their plumage, roasted whole and stuffed with dates … bowls of blandissory, a mixture of beef broth and boiled wine sweetened with honey and dotted with blanched almonds and chunks of capon … buttered pease, chopped nuts, and slivers of swan poached in a sauce of saffron and peaches … skewers of blood sausage … leche of brawn, spiced with cinnamon, cloves, sugar, and almond milk … hot pigeon pie … with a spoon of lemon cream

Also, I was reading one of Sansa's chapters in AGOT, which describes the feast after the Hand's tourney. There aren't as many similarities, but the mention of aurochs stood out to me. It's similar to the TWOW sample chapter, where whole aurochs are roasted our in the courtyard because they're too big to bring inside:

six monstrous huge aurochs had been roasting for hours, turning slowly on wooden spits while kitchen boys basted them with butter and herbs until the meat crackled and spit … sweetgrass and strawberries and fresh-baked bread … iced summerwine … thick soup of barley and venison … salads of sweetgrass and spinach and plums, sprinkled with crushed nuts … snails in honey and garlic … trout fresh from the river, baked in clay … meat course … sweetbreads and pigeon pie and baked apples fragrant with cinnamon and lemon cakes frosted in sugar

Both of them have mention of lemon, perhaps because Sansa is present. I also thought it was interesting that the Hand's tourney feast has pigeon pie, even though no one is getting married. Is there some connection between pigeon pie and the pigeons Arya catches in Flea Bottom?

Edit: Actually, there are two different mentions of pigeon pie in Bran's chapters, and one in a Catelyn chapter, where Jaime's gaoler at Riverrun is eating it.

[Fox fur cloak]

In regards to almond milk, it is only mentioned 6 times in all of the Westeros-based stories. Each time it's mentioned, something terrible is about to happen. See here: http://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=almond+milk&scope[]=agot&scope[]=adwd&scope[]=twoiaf&scope[]=acok&scope[]=thk&scope[]=trp&scope[]=asos&scope[]=tss&scope[]=tpatq&scope[]=affc&scope[]=tmk

By the way, thank you so much for posting the link to this search! I never would have known there was such an easy way to find quotes... Here I've been, flipping through thousands of pages...

[TheOne-EyedHound]

I'm a big fan of guest rights, so everything eaten in those wedding or done can be a foreshadow.

Edit: also the damn honeyed grubs incident.

[sweetsunray]

Interesting thread!

About the 'beets' - could it be a simple wordplay with 'being beaten/to beat' or 'about to get beaten'?

[Isobel Harper]

A lot of interesting things to read!

Thanks to TalalofDorne who brought up the three blood oranges with the Elia/Oberyn/Quentyn interpretation. It adds a lot to the scene and I will see it that way now. Also, I think Ragnorak has a good point by separating blood oranges from simply oranges.

I see pikes (carnivorous fish, often in folklore tales of different countries) and their dishes as having intentional symbolism and signifying that a deception is taking place and that it is done by a woman. As for the events yet to come, I would argue that the pike imaginery gives us a clue that Daenerys has a female enemy close in her household (possibly The Harpy) and that the "bad cat" pestering Tommen might really be trouble.

Pikes are dished only a handful of times throughout the books. In what can hardly be a coincidence, a herb-crusted pike is served only twice in the entire story and in two identical situations. Amerei Frey offers it to Jaime when she is asking him to kill Berric for her and Cersei is feeding it (among other dishes) to ser Balman when she is asking him to get rid of Bronn for her.

So we have a pike "disquised" in herbs and a power play disquised as a desperate cry for help. Amarei is more obvious with it, so she goes on and serves the pike directly, while Cersei offers it among the other things.

Another example is Cersei dining with Kevan, after her walk of shame. This time pike is roasted plain, but it is three feet long. You could argue that Cersei also lost many of her trappings in her ordeal, but she has still not abandoned her idea of her own grandeur and she is saying things like this:

It can hardly be true, so she here is manipulating her uncle to her own ends. One more point for pikes being a symbol of womanly lies.

The contrary example is when Alys Karstark refuses pike at her wedding and goes to dance with her new husband instead. And we know her being true and straightforward with him.

Tyrion also comes across fishwives selling pikes.

Again, in context of haggling, some sort of distortion (even if for good reason).

Pike "disquised" in almond milk was also served at the red wedding, the event of cold calculation (where a girl (Roslyn) was used for deception). Though I admit this is a farther connection with a woman as the primary manipulator.

And there is the example from Daenerys' chapter:

Daenerys sends the pike "to her kitchens". It means she puts it close to her, and she "admires it" as well. This imaginery also comes straight after the image of "the harpy". Distance in public vs nearness in private.

And the last note on pike as well as another possible warning sign has to do with Tommen. At the same above mentioned dinner Cersei and Kevan had, Tommen is feeding pieces of pike to one of his kittens:

Here we have pike mentioned side by side with the "bad cat", which many think has greater significance and might be used against Tommen, possibly warged by Arya. Ser Pounce anihilating the pike meant for Tommen's plate could mean the kitten is seeing through that deception :D

Edit: The first version was in a rush, hopefully this one is better.

This is an amazing catch. There's is a scene on the Shy Maid featuring a pike that I thought was significant, and I knew to come to this thread to see if anyone else managed to find the symbolism behind "pike." It seems you have solved the riddle to its symbolism.

Here is the paragraph of the scene on the Shy Maid with a pike being prepared:

By the time Griff appeared on deck, the pike was spitting and sizzling over the brazier whilst Ysilla hovered over it with a lemon, squeezing. The sellsword wore his mail and wolfskin cloak, soft leather gloves, dark woolen breeches. If he was surprised to see Tyrion awake, he gave no sign beyond his customary scowl. He took Yandry back to the tiller, where they spoke in low voices, too quietly for the dwarf to hear. (ADwD, Tyrion VI)

I'm not convinced that Young Griff is a fraud, but one possible interpretation from this scene is that Young Griff is not who he claims to be. Lemons are commonly associated with Dorne and also symbolically represent truth. (See the beginning of my comment here.) Ysilla is covering the pike (deception) with the "truth" (lemon) that Young Griff's mother is Dornish (lemon). The deception could be hiding that Young Griff is a Blackfyre. However, notice that Griff appears immediately after this scene wearing his wolfskin cloak again. When the reader is first introduced to Griff, he is wearing a "red wolfskin cloak of the Rhoyne," (ADwD, Tyrion III) which he is noted as wearing during each of his scenes in Tyrion's chapter and in the "Lost Lord" chapter. If Young Griff is not who he claims to be, I believe that he is Rhaegar's son with Lyanna, not Elia. The sigil of House Nymeros Martell - the spear piercing the sun - combines the sigils of Mors Martell and Nymeria, respectively; the red wolf combines the sigil of Targaryen (red) and Stark (wolf).