TWOW Character POV Ratios

[mystikherb]

Which characters do you think will get the most POV chapters in The Winds of Winter? GRRM has said that he doesn't plan on splitting the books by location again (for now, at least), so if that's true it's safe to assume that there are a lot of characters to split the book between. Let's look at what we have.

WILL DEFINITELY HAVE POV CHAPTERS IN TWOW:

Aeron Greyjoy

Theon Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Arya Stark

Sansa Stark

Barristen Selmy

Tyrion Lannister

Arianne Martell

WILL PROBABLY HAV POVS IN TWOW (IF IT'S NOT SPLIT)

Daenerys Targaryen

Bran Stark

Jaime Lannister

Cersei Lannister

Brienne of Tarth

Samwell Tarly

Jon Snow (if he's alive and not permanently warged into ghost)

and a few others I'm sure.

I'd expect the Greyjoys to be a little more condensed from this point on, and I'm not expecting them to have a large portion of the POVs, probably a similar amount to what they've been getting in Feast and Dance. I would say the same similarly for Arianne Martel. As for Barristen Selmy, I could see it going two ways. If Dany manages returns to the battle of Meereen after her run in with the Dothraki, I doubt that we'll see any Selmy POVs after the battle itself is over. If Dany is gone doing her own thing for a while and does not return in time for the end of the battle, Selmy may have been established so we can see what's going on through his eyes at Meereen for awhile while Dany is gone. In that case, he may get a bit more of his POVs.

We can expect some heavy Lannister POVs, with Tyrion and Jaime getting a lot of them. I think Cersei will continue to have a lot of POV chapters until she dies. If this happens earlier in TWOW (which I would not be opposed to), there would be a considerable amount of room in the book for other characters.

I expect that Brienne and Samwell will get a shrinkage in POV chapters. He really needs to make some room if he's going to fit all the characters into one book, and these are characters I feel that can have a storyline in 3-4 chapters.

What I'd really like to know is whether Bran, Arya, and also Sansa will get more chapters. I'm really hoping so, especially with Arya. She and Bran have had a significant drop in chapters since Storm of Swords, but I'm expecting them to start getting more chapters at least by Dream of Spring. Arya I'd really like to see have a good bit more chapters in Winds, like she had in books 1-3. Especially if she finds her way back to Westeros in the book.

To sum up my opinion, I'd say that the characters with the most POV chapters will be Tyrion, Daenerys, Jaime, Jon Snow (very possibly, at least), and Cersei depending on her life span. Next I think characters like Theon, Barristen, Victarion, Sansa, and hopefully Arya too will be getting a decent story-arch (medium length). Then, finally, I think Arianne Martell, Samwell, Brienne, and unfortunately Bran will bring up the rear (apart from possible 1 or 2 time POVs like Jon Connington, Melisandre, or whatever else).

Other things to keep in mind are character deaths, character-archs crossing so that only one is necessary, and new character POVs (which each succesive book has done, so I think it's safe to assume we will get at least one new POV).

What do you guys think?

[locke and key]

Which characters do you think will get the most POV chapters in The Winds of Winter? GRRM has said that he doesn't plan on splitting the books by location again (for now, at least), so if that's true it's safe to assume that there are a lot of characters to split the book between. Let's look at what we have.

WILL DEFINITELY HAVE POV CHAPTERS IN TWOW:

Aeron Greyjoy

Theon Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Arya Stark

Sansa Stark

Barristen Selmy

Tyrion Lannister

Arianne Martell

WILL PROBABLY HAV POVS IN TWOW (IF IT'S NOT SPLIT)

Daenerys Targaryen

Bran Stark

Jaime Lannister

Cersei Lannister

Brienne of Tarth

Samwell Tarly

Jon Snow (if he's alive and not permanently warged into ghost)

and a few others I'm sure.

I'd expect the Greyjoys to be a little more condensed from this point on, and I'm not expecting them to have a large portion of the POVs, probably a similar amount to what they've been getting in Feast and Dance. I would say the same similarly for Arianne Martel. As for Barristen Selmy, I could see it going two ways. If Dany manages returns to the battle of Meereen after her run in with the Dothraki, I doubt that we'll see any Selmy POVs after the battle itself is over. If Dany is gone doing her own thing for a while and does not return in time for the end of the battle, Selmy may have been established so we can see what's going on through his eyes at Meereen for awhile while Dany is gone. In that case, he may get a bit more of his POVs.

We can expect some heavy Lannister POVs, with Tyrion and Jaime getting a lot of them. I think Cersei will continue to have a lot of POV chapters until she dies. If this happens earlier in TWOW (which I would not be opposed to), there would be a considerable amount of room in the book for other characters.

I expect that Brienne and Samwell will get a shrinkage in POV chapters. He really needs to make some room if he's going to fit all the characters into one book, and these are characters I feel that can have a storyline in 3-4 chapters.

What I'd really like to know is whether Bran, Arya, and also Sansa will get more chapters. I'm really hoping so, especially with Arya. She and Bran have had a significant drop in chapters since Storm of Swords, but I'm expecting them to start getting more chapters at least by Dream of Spring. Arya I'd really like to see have a good bit more chapters in Winds, like she had in books 1-3. Especially if she finds her way back to Westeros in the book.

To sum up my opinion, I'd say that the characters with the most POV chapters will be Tyrion, Daenerys, Jaime, Jon Snow (very possibly, at least), and Cersei depending on her life span. Next I think characters like Theon, Barristen, Victarion, Sansa, and hopefully Arya too will be getting a decent story-arch (medium length). Then, finally, I think Arianne Martell, Samwell, Brienne, and unfortunately Bran will bring up the rear (apart from possible 1 or 2 time POVs like Jon Connington, Melisandre, or whatever else).

Other things to keep in mind are character deaths, character-archs crossing so that only one is necessary, and new character POVs (which each succesive book has done, so I think it's safe to assume we will get at least one new POV).

What do you guys think?

grrm has confirmed we won't be getting any new povs

[Ravencrow]

I think it is a good supposition. I hope the book won't be split. Some characters will have a lot of POV, Lannister and Stark.

Sansa and Samwell had no POV in a Dance with Dragons, so I hope they will get more.

You forgot Davos, and I expect him to be more present. The Winds of Winter will probably concentrate more on the GNC, and he is important in it, maybe he will bring back Rickon.

Furthermore, if Jon dies, he need to be replaced by someone to tell the stories at the Wall. Either it will be Melisandre, who then will have more chapters, or it will be someone else, with one or two chapters for Melisandre.

EDIT

grrm has confirmed we won't be getting any new povs

Okay, then it will probably be Melisandre !

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Burnthe witch! I hate Melissandre

[Jon Blackfyre]

WILL DEFINITELY HAVE POV CHAPTERS IN TWOW:

Aeron Greyjoy

Theon Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Arya Stark

Sansa Stark

Barristen Selmy

Tyrion Lannister

Arianne Martell

WILL PROBABLY HAV POVS IN TWOW (IF IT'S NOT SPLIT)

Daenerys Targaryen

Bran Stark

Jaime Lannister

Cersei Lannister

Brienne of Tarth

Samwell Tarly

Jon Snow (if he's alive and not permanently warged into ghost)

and a few others I'm sure.

While I don't think Jon Connington needs to take up any more than maybe 2 or 3 chapters I do feel he should be in it to show an opposing view of Aegon's actions and movements from Arianne's.

Also, Cersie is the only POV in Kings Landing, and while most of this book will be in the north I feel she will have a second tier chunk to show the conclusion of that whole mess.

No new POVs according to GRRM, besides the prologue of course, which I think is going to be either the maester at Storm's End or maybe Highgarden to show the attacks by Aegon or Euron.

No epilogue in this one I think, that will wait until aDoS as the epilogue s usually come at the end of an arc, IE aSoS and aDwD.

Jon isn't dead IMO so I'm thinking the biggest chunks will be Dany, Tyrion and Jon again but followed closely by Greyjoys (combined) and Sansa, Arya and Jaime/Breinne.

I want Bran to have a larger chunk but he is becoming too omnipotent I feel and would have way too much knowledge. A sprinkling of Bran throughout is what I'm thinking. Maybe 5-6 total.

I do think that the Davos storyline with Rickon will come into play big as well, and could actually end up being one of the most moorland in the north for this book.

[Ser Tahu]

My predictions keeping in mind that it is highly unlikely that TWoW will have more than 90 chapters (longer than ADwD, but possibly chapters closer to the length of those in ASoS):

Prologue - Storm's End Maester witnessing Aegon take the castle

Daenerys - 10 chapters (my theory is that her first 2-3 chapters will be among the Dothraki and will happen chronologically at the same time as Barristan's ADwD chapters, with the last of those chapters ending with her seeing Meereen in the distance just before the battle starts. Overall I expect this to be a very Daenerys-heavy book)

Tyrion - 8 chapters (for at least some of the book his storyline will overlap with Daenerys)

Cersei* - 8 chapters (I don't think she will survive to see the end of the book, but will be quite prominent while she is around)

Jon - 6 chapters (lets face it, he will be back)

Arianne^ - 6 chapters (it seems as though she will step up a bit in this book, and will likely end up being the PoV for Aegon)

Davos^ - 5 chapters (my guess is that he will be the first chapter after the prologue, and that he will already be with Rickon on the way back to Westeros)

Sansa - 5 chapters

Asha^ - 4 chapters

Brandon - 4 chapters

Theon - 4 chapters

Arya^ - 4 chapters

Aeron* - 4 chapters

Jaime* - 4 chapters (could go with Cersei)

Samwell - 4 chapters

Victarion* - 3 chapters (two at the battle, then none for a while due to the presence of Tyrion and Daenerys, then one later on)

Melisandre* - 3 chapters (reaction to Jon's death, more wall stuff, and then reviving Jon (immediately followed by his first chapter)

Barristan - 3 chapters (we know of 2. I think he will have a third battle chapter in which he dies)

Areo^ - 2 chapters (at least one of the Darkstar hunt, which I think will fail. I think he will also die in his last chapter (possibly after witnessing Doran getting murdered))

Jon Connington^ - 2 chapters (one before Arianne arrives and one after)

* = could have less chapters

^ = could have more chapters

NO CHAPTERS DESPITE BEING ALIVE: Catelyn (obviously) and Brienne (I think her time as a PoV is done, thankfully. She was by far the most boring PoV in the entire series).

[Montey14]

the way I see it ....it depends where GRRm wants to spend most of his time during this book.....If he wants to develope more of the story line in Kl....then we'll get alot of Cersei.....If it's the north and the happenings at winterfell,,,,we'll get quite a bit of theon and maybe his sister if she gets a pov......If it's the riverlands we'll get to see alot of Jaime and Brienne.....Interesting to see who's Pov we'll get at the wall....If Jon is dead then it would have to be Melli to describe the happenings there. I would expect Bran's story getting quite a bit of development ....his abilities are getting to great to not expand on his story. GGRM has the potential to elaborate on alot of westrosi lore through Bran.

[mystikherb]

grrm has confirmed we won't be getting any new povs

Thanks guys, I think I did hear that somewhere but forgot. That makes things a lot simpler.

Yeah I forgot one or two people on that list. It can be hard to keep them all in mind.

I like the idea of a couple Melisandre POV chapters followed by a small few Jon chapters. If we see more POV from Jon, it'd be kind of cool to have it be like Arya and Bran and in some earlier books Dany in where he gets much less chapters but chapters that cover a lot of ground and really prepare his arch for the final book. It would make room for the book to handle it's loose ends while still making Jon's shorter arch interesting.

Like how Bran's story advanced so much in just 3 really awesome chapters in ADWD, maybe we could see something like that with Jon.

[intheswamp]

Some characters shouldn't need as many chapters, because there will be other POVs nearby. For example, Dany always needed a lot, but now there are 3 others with her, which should decrease her numbers. GRRM brought many POV characters together in Dance.

Slaver's Bay: Tyrion, Victarian, Barristan, eventually Dany (I expect Vic and/or Barristan to die early on in Winds.) (Tyrion and Dany being in the same location will save a lot of chapters.)

The Wall: Mel, Jon

King's Landing: Cersei

Stormlands: Connington, Arianne

Riverlands: Jaime, Brienne

The North: Asha, Theon, Davos

The Reach: Sam

Bravos: Arya

The Vale: Sansa

Beyond the Wall: Bran

Dorne: Areo (Arianne early on)

???: Aeron

[Veltigar]

grrm has confirmed we won't be getting any new povs

We aren't getting any POVs from newly introduced characters (like Joncon in ADWD). However, characters that have already been introduced might get promoted to POV status (I think that there are two strong candidates namely the BF and Jeyne Westerling).

[Ser Tahu]

We aren't getting any POVs from newly introduced characters (like Joncon in ADWD). However, characters that have already been introduced might get promoted to POV status (I think that there are two strong candidates namely the BF and Jeyne Westerling).

Well I took 'no new PoVs' to mean 'no new PoVs' :P.

And who is BF? I can't think of anyone important with those initials. Oh, right, the Blackfish.

For Jeyne I can't think of anything major that could come up in her storyline, and all we know is that we will see her again. As for the Blackfish, I think he will show up in a random PoV as a surprise, similar to the surprise Jorah appearance in ADwD when he kidnaps Tyrion. Possibly in a Jaime PoV and with some interaction with Catelyn? That could be interesting...

[locke and key]

We aren't getting any POVs from newly introduced characters (like Joncon in ADWD). However, characters that have already been introduced might get promoted to POV status (I think that there are two strong candidates namely the BF and Jeyne Westerling).

I doubt it grrm has 20 povs to fit into twow I don't think he'd introduce more

[Old Ser]

I can't say about the Prologue/epilogue but I can guess about the remaining chapters: (73)

x8 Daenerys Targaryen (By the end of the book I hope that she is on her way to Westeros and be in Westeros by the start of DoS)

x7 Jon Snow

x7 Arya Stark (By the end returning to Westeros alone or with Daenerys?)

x6 Bran Stark (I hope that we get some info about the Others as well)

x6 Tyrion Lannister

x5 Arianne Martell

x5 Davos Seaworth

x4 Barristan Selmy

x4 Victarion Greyjoy

x4 Jaime Lannister

x4 Cersei Lannister

x3 Samwell Tarly

x3 Theon Greyjoy

x2 Damphair

x2 Melissandre

x2 Jon Connington

x1 Areo Hotah

[Colonel Green]

I can't say about the Prologue/epilogue but I can guess about the remaining chapters: (73)

You don't have Sansa there.

Bran getting 6 chapters seems rather unlikely to me; that's almost as many as he's had in his last two books.

Sam's all alone in Oldtown, so I expect he'll have a decent number of chapters there, assuming the Citadel story really amounts to something. Same with Sansa in the Vale.

[Old Ser]

You don't have Sansa there.

Bran getting 6 chapters seems rather unlikely to me; that's almost as many as he's had in his last two books.

Sam's all alone in Oldtown, so I expect he'll have a decent number of chapters there, assuming the Citadel story really amounts to something. Same with Sansa in the Vale.

You're right I forgot about her.. and yes she better have a role in the whole story, because the LF scheme will be ruined after Rickon returns. Also, I believe that we need more chapters for Bran to learn what the Others seek or what is they want and the Coldhands & Brynden storyline is IMO going to play a vital role in the story at the wall and beyond. Maybe I wish we had 6 chapters, but it can happen! :>

[Veltigar]

Well I took 'no new PoVs' to mean 'no new PoVs' .

And who is BF? I can't think of anyone important with those initials. Oh, right, the Blackfish.

For Jeyne I can't think of anything major that could come up in her storyline, and all we know is that we will see her again. As for the Blackfish, I think he will show up in a random PoV as a surprise, similar to the surprise Jorah appearance in ADwD when he kidnaps Tyrion. Possibly in a Jaime PoV and with some interaction with Catelyn? That could be interesting...

When you read the actual SSM or interview in which he stated the no new POV's you'll see that he meant no totally new POV characters (like JonCon). People stating that there are going to be no new POV chapters are exaggerating.

Concerning Jeyne: this is the actuel statement by GRRM (http://i.imgur.com/o9LBNBT.png). He clearly states that we’ll be “definitely hearing more about Jeyne Westerling.” If you read that sentence in the context of the entire statement than that clearly signifies that Jeyne still has an important part to play in the story.

Personally, I think she and the BF might turn up in the Neck (the BF is definitely going there IMHO, Jeyne might go to. We need a POV chapter in the Neck. The best candidates are the BF and Jeyne).

[Lehnaru]

I want Sansa to have the most chapters. She really needs them after her 3 in Feast and her 0 in Dance. Her story is about to get very interesting, I think.

[Willard/Mitt Lannister]

My predictions-

Prologue: Highgarden's Maester.

Dany- 8 chapters (4 on her own, 3 with Tyrion and co., 1 in Westeros)

Sam-7 we need a lot of Oldtown info

Arianne-6

Sansa-6

Tyrion-6

Arya-5

Cersei-5

Asha-5

Jon-5

Bran-4

Jaime-4

Mel-4

JonCon-4

Davos-3

Aeron-3

Barristan-3

Theon-3

Victarion-2

Areo-2

And none for Brienne of Tarth, bye!

Epilogue- I dk but I'd like to see Blackfish on the Neck, he and Cat seek out Howland Reed and learn R+L=J

[KamiShikkaku]

9 Tyrion (a couple chapters in Meereen, a couple in transit to Westeros, a few at Casterly Rock, and add a couple just cause George likes him)

8 Daenerys (2 Dothraki, 2 Meereen, the rest returning to/in Westeros)

6 Arya (about three for more training, about three returning to/in Westeros)

6 Sansa (covering the events in the Vale, assuming Littlefinger's plans finally get into gear)

6 Melissandre (primarily for wall/north of the wall updates, dies reviving Jon in her final chapter at the end of the book)

5 Arianne (two that we know of before meeting Aegon, three showing Aegon's movements)

5 Sam (probably all in Oldtown, but this leaves him a lot to do in the last book, as I predict that he needs to get to Horn Hill with Gilly, encounter his father at some point, meet Jorah somehow and relay Jeor's final words, and finally reunite with Jon)

5 Davos (??)

5 Theon (mainly so we know what's going on with the battle of Winterfell and its aftermath, but I assume Davos will also give us insight into that)

4 Bran (??)

4 Jaime (2 in the Riverlands, 2 at KL)

4 Cersei (I'm a bit confused as to how early in the book the trial is gonna be, especially if Jaime is involved)

3 Barristan (add me to the list of people thinking/hoping that he will die in Meereen)

3 Victarion (two in Meereen, then he can be covered by other character's POV's for the most part, then one more wherever he ends up by the end of the book)

2 Damphair (not sure what he's doing, but I'm sure it can be covered/reflected on within two chapters)

2 Asha (??)

1 Jon Connington (Arianne will cover Aegon's actions. JonCon can have one just to reveal something about Rhaegar or someone, and then die during one of of the battles.)

1 Areo Hotah (just to let us know something about Darkstar)

0 Jon (revived at the end of the book)

0 Brienne (if she survives BWB, she can just remain with Jaime and be covered by his chapters)

79 in total.

[locke and key]

I don't think we can really predict that much, as really we only know whats gonna happen to most characters at the beginning of the book. (tyrion could have 6 chapters during the battle of meereen then do nothing after it's over) and we don't really know the content of the book all that well