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Tyrion's parentage


KMLeB

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When I read the part about Tywin saying "since I cannot prove that you are not mine" in SoS, this same thought occurred to me. I agree that the theory is plausible, and there is some evidence out there that it might be true. If we believe R+L=J (which is seems most do), then it would be fitting that all 3 Targs had their mothers die while giving birth to them.



BUT, I do not want this to happen. I love the dynamic of Ty killing his father who was brutal and hostile towards him. I love that he is the misunderstood, underestimated little lion who could and should become the greatest lion of them all. I agree with the people who say that it would take away from his character arc. He should just be a Lannister..



GRRM has said that all 3 heads don't have to be Targs, so its possible for him to be part of the Targ "comeback" without him being one. I hope he stays a Lannister



Side Note: I think its funny that there are so many theories out there about secret Targaryens. Its like everyone wants their favorite character to end up being a Targ.. And then when we finally have one guy who is introduced as a Targ, everyone screams "FAKE!!!!" and goes nuts about it. (I do think Aegon is fake tho, I just find it funny how much GRRM has trained us to be suspicious of everyone and their mother. I think even if he flat out told us exactly that R+L=J, some would still call bullshit bc we don't trust him or anyone)


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My mistake. I was under the impression that it directly described tyrion's eye as being black, but appearing to be a very dark purple. They do mention some targaryens as having deep purple eyes that can appear black, and he does however have pale blonde hair as well as black, not the normal gold color you would expect from the product of two lannisters.

I have faith that GRRM will do tyrion justice regardless of his fate, I just think it'd be cool for him to end up being a targaryen.

Nope. It is only ever described as black. That it *might* be dark purple is strictly fan speculation to support this nonsense theory. I think someone in world would have noticed if the eye was purple, not black.

Him being a Targ would be terrible, it would undermine his entire relationship with Tywin, absolve him of patricide, and just be too fairy tale princess for GRRM's writing style.

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Completely agree with DanyGirl on this one. It would take more away from the story than it would add to it.



I hate when people try to say that his eye was purple. We learn about his mismatched eyes in his own chapter. So its in his own thoughts, or view, that he has one green eye and one black eye. I think he would definitely know if his eye was purple, or if it was black. And there would have been some mention of it by someone else by now I would assume. It would be sloppy for GRRM to just add in book 7 "And his eye, which seemed black, was actually purplish".



He might very well be Targ, I have no idea, but the "purple" eye argument is just people making things up to support their own conclusions. I know that everyone on here does that, but this strikes me as more bothersome than other cases


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This theory has as much merit as pretty much any other, until proven correct or in correct.

R+L=J has devoted believers, and yet Tyrion being a Targ has just as many hints and is generally despised.

Tyrion doesn't resemble any of the Lannisters

Tywin states since "I can't PROVE you aren't my son

It is stated that Aery's had a thing for Joanna

The strongest link for me is the obvious Jon-Tyrion-Dany link, where each killed their mother in child birth.(If R+L=J) That link, and the dragon has three heads, Dany has three dragons etc...

Now, personally I would prefer Tyrion is a Lannister, just as I prefer Jon to be Stark.

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Completely agree with DanyGirl on this one. It would take more away from the story than it would add to it.

I hate when people try to say that his eye was purple. We learn about his mismatched eyes in his own chapter. So its in his own thoughts, or view, that he has one green eye and one black eye. I think he would definitely know if his eye was purple, or if it was black. And there would have been some mention of it by someone else by now I would assume. It would be sloppy for GRRM to just add in book 7 "And his eye, which seemed black, was actually purplish".

He might very well be Targ, I have no idea, but the "purple" eye argument is just people making things up to support their own conclusions. I know that everyone on here does that, but this strikes me as more bothersome than other cases

Ya, I think someone would have noticed it was purple by now. I mean, that's kind of a big deal. Not too many people have purple eyes besides Valarians and Daynes.

Think of how much time he spends with Shea, don't you think Shea at some point would have been staring into his eyes and been all, "hey, your eye is purple!"?

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i know how most of the people who hate this theory (of which i am one) will completely deny it and anything related to the lannister siblings parentage. however, i am a crackpot theorist so i just want to add one little theory to compliment this one. Go ahead and hate me.



crackpot theory:



What if Tywin was sterile?.........


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I don't think Joanna counts as kinslayling, dying in child birth is common. If it is kinslayling then Jon, Dany, and possibly Benjen are all kinslayers, along with MANY others. You can't blame a baby for its mother's death during child birth.

Tell that Tywin Lannister.

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This theory has as much merit as pretty much any other, until proven correct or in correct.

R+L=J has devoted believers, and yet Tyrion being a Targ has just as many hints and is generally despised.

Tyrion doesn't resemble any of the Lannisters He doesn't resemble any of the Targaryens either except the heterochromatic eyes. Hair is different and there's no dwarfism or physical deformities in the Targ line.

Tywin states since "I can't PROVE you aren't my son. He also tells Tyrion "You are my son" when he send him to King's Landing

It is stated that Aery's had a thing for Joanna The timing of Tyrions birth and conception are completely in conflict with what we know from Aerys' time outside of KL when Joanna was at CL

The strongest link for me is the obvious Jon-Tyrion-Dany link, where each killed their mother in child birth.(If R+L=J) That link, and the dragon has three heads, Dany has three dragons etc... Martin has said that the heads don't need to be Targs. Even if Tyrion were Aerys' bastard, no one would deny him as a Targ in that sense.

Now, personally I would prefer Tyrion is a Lannister, just as I prefer Jon to be Stark.

The evidence of Tyrion being Targ versus Jon being a result of R+L is laughable to compare.

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1) I'm a firm believer of R+L=J. I'm also a firm believer in that it won't matter in the books. It's part of what makes ASOIAF a great tragedy and not a typical fantasy story (just like Ned's death).



2) I think adding the Aerys/Joanna bit is garbage writing. If it means nothing, it was just a pointless addition. If it means something, either Jamie/Cersie are Aerys kids or Tyrion is. If it's Jamie/Cersie (more plausible), adding the Joanna bit is unnecessary in ADWD, as Genna's statement about Tyrion being Tywin's son in feast would have been sufficient, and if Tyrion was Aerys son, it makes Genna's statement in Feast less valid. Genna's statement reinforces the tragedy we know -- Tyrion is the true (spiritual/intellectual) heir to Tywin and Casterly Rock, Jamie and Cersie are the false gold that blinded him.



Despite Genna, probably Kevan, and likely Garion all knowing Tyrion's worth to the House, it makes Tywin's blind hatred (and what that has ended up costing House Lannister) more tragic than Tywin haing a *valid" complaint against Tyrion's Lannisterhood because he is the product of an out-of-wedlock rape.


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He doesn't resemble any of the Targaryens either except the heterochromatic eyes.

At that, only one Targ, Shiera Seastar, had odd eyes. Euron is also thought to have odd eyes and he's not a Targ nor does it occur to anyone that he could be.

Genna's statement reinforces the tragedy we know -- Tyrion is the true (spiritual/intellectual) heir to Tywin and Casterly Rock, Jamie and Cersie are the false gold that blinded him.

I agree, it would be crap writing if Tyrion were Aerys's, it would render so much of his difficult interactions with Tywin pointless, and if it turned out to be so, that's the one thing that would truly piss me off.

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Jaime/Cersei being Aery's bastards would be pointless too. It will add nothing to the plot.

Keep them all pure Lannisters.

It would make Jaime a kinslayer, which is potentially important. If revealed, it would also mean Tyrion is the legal heir to Casterly Rock (even though Jaime technically gave up claim by taking the white, the precedent for dismissal was set with Selmy).

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When I read the part about Tywin saying "since I cannot prove that you are not mine" in SoS, this same thought occurred to me. I agree that the theory is plausible, and there is some evidence out there that it might be true. If we believe R+L=J (which is seems most do), then it would be fitting that all 3 Targs had their mothers die while giving birth to them.

Assuming fAegon is the 3rd dragon and not Tyrion, could his mother have also died in childbirth? Unless I'm wrong, Serra (potential mom) could have died giving birth to him.

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1) I'm a firm believer of R+L=J. I'm also a firm believer in that it won't matter in the books. It's part of what makes ASOIAF a great tragedy and not a typical fantasy story (just like Ned's death).

2) I think adding the Aerys/Joanna bit is garbage writing. If it means nothing, it was just a pointless addition. If it means something, either Jamie/Cersie are Aerys kids or Tyrion is. If it's Jamie/Cersie (more plausible), adding the Joanna bit is unnecessary in ADWD, as Genna's statement about Tyrion being Tywin's son in feast would have been sufficient, and if Tyrion was Aerys son, it makes Genna's statement in Feast less valid. Genna's statement reinforces the tragedy we know -- Tyrion is the true (spiritual/intellectual) heir to Tywin and Casterly Rock, Jamie and Cersie are the false gold that blinded him.

Despite Genna, probably Kevan, and likely Garion all knowing Tyrion's worth to the House, it makes Tywin's blind hatred (and what that has ended up costing House Lannister) more tragic than Tywin haing a *valid" complaint against Tyrion's Lannisterhood because he is the product of an out-of-wedlock rape.

:agree: I don't understand where is the Tyrion's Aerys' son theory coming and re-coming from. it would be such a late down because it would make Tywin's treatment of Tyrion almost justifiable. The Golden twins being Aerys' would be slightly more poetic (Tywin's only child is the son he despised and ignored plus Jaime inadvertently killing his own father) but there is zero evidence to support it and it would add nothing to the story. It is not as if they have PCR machines in Westeros and without a paternity test they will remain Lannisters.

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I think Jaime being Aerys son would greatly develop and not recess his character.

:agree: Plus there's the beautiful irony of his golden ass being seated on the IT when the Ned showed up and gave that off-handed line about keeping it warm for King Bob.

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I am neutral on Tyrion as Aerys's bastard. The theory is fine with me.

However lately I am leaning towards the Lannisters being descendants of a marriage with a Plumm at least, and possibly also one with a daughter of Duncan the Small.

In other words there are other ways for Tyrion to have inherited some Targaryen blood. And I do believe he does have some.

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