What if Robert legitimized his bastards?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I'm pretty sure that mya stone is Roberts oldest bastard. didn't he father her while he was still living in the vale?

Yes but Gendry is the oldest son so he would be the heir not Mya

[Victor227]

I was thinking, what if Ned told Robert on his deathbed that Cersei's children were fathered by the Kingslayer? The most likely outcome is that Robert has a heart attack before he can do anything ( :P ) but lets assume that he has enough strength to tell Ned to bring the Kingsguard and the Small Council in. Ned sensing he will order the deaths of Cersei and the children asks him not to harm the children, but Robert orders him to be quick because he's dying.

The Kingsguard and the small arrive and I guess Cersei could come in too. Robert orders the execution of Cersei and Jaime and declares that their children have no rights to the throne. Then he goes ahead to legitimize the bastards he knows of: Mya Stone, Edric Storm and Barra. Ned mentions the smith's apprentice named Gendry and claims that he's a good lad. Robert agrees to legitimize him too. He then dies.

What happens afterwards?

My first guess is that the Kingsguard immediately arrests Cersei and she is executed. Gendry is the oldest legitimized Baratheon so he becomes King with Ned as his Hand. Gendry is very stubborn but he's also not fond of the nobles. Do the other former bastards come to King's Landing?

How do the Lannisters react? Do they have a chance?

I just wanted to hear what everyone thinks.

There's not going to be an immediate execution. Cersei may be arrested, but its her word against Ned's. Pycelle, being the resident Lannister toady and medical expert, declares Robert as being in a vulnerable mental state. The Lannisters have dozens of swords, and unbeknownst to everyone but Littlefinger, the Gold Cloaks as well. There's a tensed parting from the room, with Cersei imprisoned perhaps, but little else done besides the legitimization order given (assuming Robert does so).

Renly advises Ned to take control of the Red Keep through a nighttime blitz to get Joffrey and Cersei. Ned says no, because he's still Ned in this scenario. Instead he goes to Littlefinger to get the City Watch on-side. The next day Joffrey takes the throne while Ned convenes the Small Council (minus Renly, as he did the smart thing and booked it). Ned starts to explain the situation and what he imagines will happen in detail, they're all called in, Gold Cloaks backstab Ned, everything goes to hell.

My favorite part of the 'what-if' is if instead of crowning himself, Renly decides to go with Edric Storm, as that's a candidate that both he and Stannis could get behind. It may mean losing the Tyrells, but technically Renly could offer him to them for the Margery match anyway. Remember, Renly originally intended to remove the Lannister influence and marry Margery to Robert to help back the throne. With Edric legitimized, he may go for the same path using Robert's 'true son' instead of chancing crowning himself, and the legitimization is a technicality that Stannis can reasonably use as well.

[Red Priest]

I think only Edric ever had a good chance of being legitimised given that he was the only acknowledged one and his mother was of noble birth (Florent) His uncles would be unhappy but Renly would likely seize the chance to be Regent while Stannis would be unable to do much about it (the Florents wouldn't back him up on this)

[Dire-Lion]

Of course this scenario could mean that the Baratheon's could actually win the war because now they could have the reach and the stormlands united, and have Stannis' military expertise and Renly's charisma working together.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

The Lannisters had control of Kings Landing, Renly would try to usurp anyway, Stannis would likely argue his claim supersedes a legitimized bastards claim. Basically, no major change in the long run. Goldcloaks belong to Janos who belongs to LF who wants Lannisters in control of the Throne. Servants of House Stark are still culled, Ned is still arrested, Barristan is still ousted, Renly still runs away, Goldcloaks and Lannister swords still take control of Kings Landing and Joffrey still kills Ned.

[Crowford]

With Stannis, I think it would also be influenced by what Melisandre tells him. If she says "No, it's fine, you don't have to actually be king, just make sure you fullfil your duty as Azor Ahai and let Edric reign", I do think Stannis would back his nephew as long as Robert legitimized him. It's unorthodox, but if you have no trueborn heirs legitimizing your noble bastard (ONE, not all of them) is a valid thing to do. Stannis would gnash his teeth, but he would accept it. However, if Melisandre tells him "Nope, you have to be king for the prophecy to work" he wouldn't.

[Janos Slynt]

If Edric Storm was legitimized son of Robert Baratheon, which we know as a fact, could you kindly remind me why Ned Stark believed Stannis was first in succession line?

Also, why do we call him Edric Storm and not Edric Baratheon, if he had been legitimized?

[Sordelor]

If Edric Storm was legitimized son of Robert Baratheon, which we know as a fact, could you kindly remind me why Ned Stark believed Stannis was first in succession line?

Also, why do we call him Edric Storm and not Edric Baratheon, if he had been legitimized?

He wasn't legitimized, he was acknowleded, that's a different thing, acknowledged is that he is accepted as Robert's son, legitimized is that he gets his father's name.

[Janos Slynt]

He wasn't legitimized, he was acknowleded, that's a different thing, acknowledged is that he is accepted as Robert's son, legitimized is that he gets his father's name.

Oh, good. I missed this point, therefore no inconsistency.

Thanks GN.

[Mikkel]

or possibly just tell the KG that Stannis is his heir let him have the throne and deal with the heirs. Wow, how many fans would that have thrilled. :)

Not this one, for all that people say Stannis is unbending and made of stone, he has learnt a lot about what being a King really is between the time of Robert's death and now. Of course, that's not likely to make him sit the throne for long, if ever.

But speculation like this is getting close to saying "okay, what if instead of discussing this story Martin has written, we scrap 90% of it and invent our own", it's basically fanfic, IMO. In the sense that it's set in Martin's universe, using the history, but the actual story unfolds so differently it's not recognizable any more.

[Crowford]

But speculation like this is getting close to saying "okay, what if instead of discussing this story Martin has written, we scrap 90% of it and invent our own", it's basically fanfic, IMO. In the sense that it's set in Martin's universe, using the history, but the actual story unfolds so differently it's not recognizable any more.

I disagree, conversations like this (not necessarily this one, but in general) contribute to the understanding of the series and the characters. It's obviously fiction (err... fiction-er), but it's not completely detached from the story proper. It's changing a small detail in a not unrealistic way, and exploring how situations would unfold under these new circumstances, hopefully contributing to the understanding of settings and characters.

[mindchap]

Not this one, for all that people say Stannis is unbending and made of stone, he has learnt a lot about what being a King really is between the time of Robert's death and now. Of course, that's not likely to make him sit the throne for long, if ever.

But speculation like this is getting close to saying "okay, what if instead of discussing this story Martin has written, we scrap 90% of it and invent our own", it's basically fanfic, IMO. In the sense that it's set in Martin's universe, using the history, but the actual story unfolds so differently it's not recognizable any more.

That's pretty much every "what if" topic though. There ok so long as no one starts fighting over them, or getting ideas from them mixed in with what actually happens in the story.

[King Tam Stark]

Kings's words mean shit once they are dead. So Cercei and her monster will probably rules again.

true king Edward IV of England's children where proven to be bastards after he died (for a little while)despite being acknowledged while he lived so this hypothesis would quickly be quelled

[Mikkel]

I disagree, conversations like this (not necessarily this one, but in general) contribute to the understanding of the series and the characters. It's obviously fiction (err... fiction-er), but it's not completely detached from the story proper. It's changing a small detail in a not unrealistic way, and exploring how situations would unfold under these new circumstances, hopefully contributing to the understanding of settings and characters.

I disagree with the underlined part for this topic at least: Cersei, Jaime and their children being executed / exiled is in no way a small detail, as almost everything that follows - at least in the big picture - happens due to the events surrounding Robert's death (Ned, the North rising, Greyjoy rebellion etc etc). The only story-arc that would be (mostly) unchanged is Daenarys'.

That's pretty much every "what if" topic though.

I agree, which is why I rarely contribute to them :)

[mindchap]

I disagree with the underlined part for this topic at least: Cersei, Jaime and their children being executed / exiled is in no way a small detail, as almost everything that follows - at least in the big picture - happens due to the events surrounding Robert's death (Ned, the North rising, Greyjoy rebellion etc etc). The only story-arc that would be (mostly) unchanged is Daenarys'.

I agree, which is why I rarely contribute to them :)

Some of them do get comical at times tho.

[King Tam Stark]

I disagree, conversations like this (not necessarily this one, but in general) contribute to the understanding of the series and the characters. It's obviously fiction (err... fiction-er), but it's not completely detached from the story proper. It's changing a small detail in a not unrealistic way, and exploring how situations would unfold under these new circumstances, hopefully contributing to the understanding of settings and characters.

I agree with mikkel changing one small detail can alter the story hugely its the implications that's important not the detail and in this instance its some pretty big details to boot

[Crowford]

I disagree with the underlined part for this topic at least: Cersei, Jaime and their children being executed / exiled is in no way a small detail, as almost everything that follows - at least in the big picture - happens due to the events surrounding Robert's death (Ned, the North rising, Greyjoy rebellion etc etc). The only story-arc that would be (mostly) unchanged is Daenarys'.

That's not what I meant. The small detail that is changed is "Ned tells Robert the truth on his deathbed, and Robert acts on it".

Compare that to, say, a theory that begins with "Imagine Valyria lost against the Ghiscari Empire, how would that affect the events of the series?" That's not just changing a single element, it's changing a few thousand years or history. The first example also has major repercussions, but the deviation point lies in changing only a very small, comparatively recent, detail.

Of course, that is not to say that the example question of Valyria is inherently pointless, it's just that you can't explore it in the context of the series, since not a single event in the books would happen in that case.

[The Dornish Direwolf]

I imagine there may be some fighting between high lords, but nothing on the scale of the Blackfyre Rebellion. Remember, many of those bastards legitimized that started that war already had some sort of power behind them. Legitimizing a keeper of mules, a blacksmith, and a ward of Storm's End isn't the same thing. Also, it's not like he would cermemoniously bequeath his warhammer to one of them, causing an uproar about who he wanted to rule. I believe there would be war between Renly and Stannis, with that ending just as quickly as before due to shadow babies.