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Dany's code of ethics is inconsistent with her actions in many cases


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#1 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:38 AM

I've noticed that in many cases Dany's code of ethics and beliefs don't match up with her actions or reactions to events. Now, despite all her flaws we know for a fact that Daenerys is strongly opposed to rape, abuse of power, unjust killing, particulary of innocents, and more than anything slavery, which she has been trying to destroy for 3 books. She is generally more humanistic than most other characters in ASOIAF (saving that girl from those Dothraki that wanted to rape her, even though they killed her later anyway in AGOT, helping those afflicted by the Pale Mare in ADWD, one of the finest acts in ASOIAF imo). That's all well and good.
Now the confusion begins: she despises rape and slavery, as any decent human being would, but during her time with the Dothraki it says in AGOT that she grows to love them as a people, and chastises Viserys for calling them savages. She defends and feels sympathy for a culture that has killed, raped and enslaved for thousands of years (hell, the Dothrakis owe their existence to enslaving and terrorizing those weaker than them).

She proceeds to inexplicably fall in love with Khal Drogo, a man who has no doubt raped and killed hundreds (he's a Dothraki Khal, it basically goes without saying that he's done these things, and probably has been doing them for most of his life). She even admires Drogo's prowess in battle, and how fine of a warrior he is, but that automatically means that he's a brutal killer who has almost certainly killed innocents.

After all this, she develops a HUGE crush on Daario Naharis, a mercenary who has until recently fighting for slavers, the same fucking people she's trying to bring down. Him killing the other captains has nothing to do with him being a good person, he saw Daenerys as the winning side and turned his cloak to survive. She blindly falls in love with a sellsword who has probably been looting and pillaging his whole life. What about her supposed will to protect innocents?
There's tons of other examples I could use, like her sacking three cities (there's no way her sellswords didn't rape or pillage, that's just inevitable with a big army) but you get the point I think. This frustrates me, because Daenerys seems like a good and moral person who really wants to do good, but her actions don't reflect that. Does she see those people as a means to an end? Or does she have two sides to her personality, the kind and caring queen and the ruthless and conquering dragon?

Edited by Panos Targaryen, 23 August 2013 - 02:41 AM.


#2 LordStoneheart

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:40 AM

As opposed to the other races of humans who never rape, pillage, and enslave...

#3 Rhymes with Weak

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:43 AM

She's Dany. She goes from love struck teenager to heartless sacker of cities in no time flat.

#4 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:49 AM

As opposed to the other races of humans who never rape, pillage, and enslave...

Yeah, but you don't see ie any of the Starks admiring the Boltons' ruthlesness, or Jaimie approving of Tywin's war crimes in the Riverlands etc. Other groups do bad things, but righteous people within those groups don't admire them for it, and usually hate the fact that they're forced to work with killers and rapists. With Dany we see no such thing, she is perfectly okay with being married to the leader of a murderous horde.

Edited by Panos Targaryen, 23 August 2013 - 02:51 AM.


#5 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:55 AM

She's Dany. She goes from love struck teenager to heartless sacker of cities in no time flat.

Not really, that would make more sense than what she is now. In the books currently she is a moral and humanistic love struck teenager who wants to protect as many people as she can, AND she is a heartless sacker of cities, all at the same time.

#6 LordStoneheart

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:59 AM

There's tons of other examples I could use, like her sacking three cities (there's no way her sellswords didn't rape or pillage, that's just inevitable with a big army) but you get the point I think. This frustrates me, because Daenerys seems like a good and moral person who really wants to do good, but her actions don't reflect that. Does she see those people as a means to an end? Or does she have two sides to her personality, the kind and caring queen and the ruthless and conquering dragon?


Wait, I didn't see this. It's wrong.
Astapor was first. She bought the Unsullied with Drogon, then used them to sack the city. Unsullied can't rape and she made her orders clear to kill only slavers in robes. Unsullied only know obediance.
In Yunkai only infantry were killed, no one inside the walls.
In Mereen it was the freed slaves that did the sacking, the Unsullied brought order, although since freeing the slaves was done by her men I guess she shares blame.
Still, her conquest of Slaver's Bay doesn't really compare as barbaric as other things like the Sack of King's Landing or Tywin's raids in the riverlands.

#7 SeanF

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:00 AM

She is genuinely enraged by injustice, but she also has a very cruel streak to her character. That's what makes her so grey.

#8 James Kidd

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:03 AM

In every fantasy story (even in real life) maidens go for the bad guys. It dosen't make her evil.

#9 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:04 AM

Wait, I didn't see this. It's wrong.
Astapor was first. She bought the Unsullied with Drogon, then used them to sack the city. Unsullied can't rape and she made her orders clear to kill only slavers in robes. Unsullied only know obediance.
In Yunkai only infantry were killed, no one inside the walls.
In Mereen it was the freed slaves that did the sacking, the Unsullied brought order, although since freeing the slaves was done by her men I guess she shares blame.
Still, her conquest of Slaver's Bay doesn't really compare as barbaric as other things like the Sack of King's Landing or Tywin's raids in the riverlands.

Damn, my bad, thanks for correcting me. Still, she sacked one city in a cruel way. Yes, it was more civilized than what the Lannisters did in both cases, but evil is evil.

Edited by Panos Targaryen, 23 August 2013 - 03:18 AM.


#10 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:06 AM

In every fantasy story (even in real life) maidens go for the bad guys. It dosen't make her evil.

I can attest to this /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> But a bad guy and a merciless leader of a horde of ruthless killers sre different things. And Dany is far from a maiden /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#11 LordStoneheart

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:07 AM

Which one city are you referring to?

#12 Frozentree

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:07 AM

She's a Targaryen. As much as I love Targaryens, there are two things which are true for every one of them, even the good ones: they are damnably stubborn and never completely sane (even our beloved Egg incinerated a castle trying to hatch dragon eggs). Dany's blindness to the dark side of certain people and her random crushes are her share of these attributes.

#13 Biglose

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:07 AM

Yeah, but you don't see ie any of the Starks admiring the Boltons' ruthlesness, or Jaimie approving of Tywin's war crimes in the Riverlands etc. Other groups do bad things, but righteous people within those groups don't admire them for it, and usually hate the fact that they're forced to work with killers and rapists. With Dany we see no such thing, she is perfectly okay with being married to the leader of a murderous horde.

Please leave the Starks out of it. Even as undead monsters they seem to be the most morally integer people in Westeros.

Anyway: The problem is that Danys moral side always gets her in the black/grey area.
I want to "free" Westeros from the ursuper-> Leading Khal Drogo to go for a pilage run.

#14 Broken Fox

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:08 AM

She's a massive hypocrite there's no denying that. She's flawed just like the rest of us. That said, she isn't evil.

#15 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:09 AM

Which one city are you referring to?

Meereen. Like the wiki says:
"Meereen was sacked savagely after its fall. The stepped pyramids of the mighty were spared the worst of the ravages, but the humbler parts of the city had been given over to an orgy of looting and killing as the city’s slaves rose up and the starving hordes who had followed Daenerys from Yunkai and Astapor poured through the broken gates." I guess I can understand the anger and total desperation of the slaves, but I'm pretty sure not everyone they killed was a slaver or a slavery supporter.

Edited by Panos Targaryen, 23 August 2013 - 03:11 AM.


#16 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:11 AM

Please leave the Starks out of it. Even as undead monsters they seem to be the most morally integer people in Westeros.

Anyway: The problem is that Danys moral side always gets her in the black/grey area.
I want to "free" Westeros from the ursuper-> Leading Khal Drogo to go for a pilage run.

Are you referring to Lady Stoneheart?

#17 LordStoneheart

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:16 AM

Mereen is definitely more questionable. I think it depends on how much you're willing to overlook the freed slaves getting revenge on perceived wrongs. Not every citizen of Mereen was probably a slaver, but their culture is definitely a slaving culture.

#18 SeanF

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:18 AM

Meereen. Like the wiki says:
"Meereen was sacked savagely after its fall. The stepped pyramids of the mighty were spared the worst of the ravages, but the humbler parts of the city had been given over to an orgy of looting and killing as the city’s slaves rose up and the starving hordes who had followed Daenerys from Yunkai and Astapor poured through the broken gates." I guess I can understand the anger and total desperation of the slaves, but I'm pretty sure not everyone they killed was a slaver or a slavery supporter.


The Mereenese Smallfolk bore the brunt of the sack. The streets were choked with corpses.

#19 Panos Targaryen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:21 AM

The Mereenese Smallfolk bore the brunt of the sack. The streets were choked with corpses.

That settles it. Dany has the blood of thousands in her hands. So much her peaceful, grateful "children". She could have used the sellswords and dragons to enter the city, and allow the Unsullied to free Meereen's slaves as peacefully as possible. It would massively decrease the death toll.

Edited by Panos Targaryen, 23 August 2013 - 03:24 AM.


#20 Biglose

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:29 AM

Are you referring to Lady Stoneheart?

Yes.

She could have used the sellswords and dragons to enter the city, and allow the Unsullied to free Meereen's slaves as peacefully as possible.

Not really...

Edited by Biglose, 23 August 2013 - 03:31 AM.