Were we supposed to blame Sansa for Lady?

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Lets blame Mycah too. If he never hits Arya, it's all avoided.

[Audrey Arryn]

Lets blame Mycah too. If he never hits Arya, it's all avoided.

Mycah isnt to blame, what can a lowborn boy do if a highborn child forces yoou to play with them.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

It's interesting, really. Ned kills a gift from the gods. He ends up being killed on the steps of the Sept of Baelor. His oldest son is killed in the sight of Gods and men when the most time honored tradition in Westeros, guest right, is violated. His wife perishes in the same event. His home is lost, burned even. It's like the Gods are punishing the Starks for that transgression of Ned's.

Ouch. Harsh! Bran is on his way to becoming an Old God, so it's full circle.

[Bippy]

Lets blame Mycah too. If he never hits Arya, it's all avoided.

Precisely. Had the smelly butcher's boy simply said no to playing a rough game with the lord's daughter, he wouldn't've wound up all dismembered in a sack.

[mindchap]

Mycah isnt to blame, what can a lowborn boy do if a highborn child forces yoou to play with them.

Or Ned and Cat, if they had raised her to be more dutiful then it wouldn't have happened.

[Audrey Arryn]

Or Ned and Cat, if they had raised her to be more dutiful then it wouldn't have happened.

I do agree to that

Also if they didnt force her to be a lady she wouldn't have been so rebellious.

[Bippy]

It's interesting, really. Ned kills a gift from the gods. He ends up being killed on the steps of the Sept of Baelor. His oldest son is killed in the sight of Gods and men when the most time honored tradition in Westeros, guest right, is violated. His wife perishes in the same event. His home is lost, burned even. It's like the Gods are punishing the Starks for that transgression of Ned's.

It's kind of a weak point in the reader that we focus so heavily on Lady, who is an animal and whose character is never developed even to the extent that Ghost's is. The death of the human being involved in this incident is secondary to the animal, because the human being was lowborn and the animal was bonded to a highborn PoV. I think it's GRRM's play on Sansa's unreliable narrator.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

The girl is a Stark. She was always going to be rebellious. Starks don't hesitate to rebel when bullshit hits the fan. Not Ned, Robb or Arya.

[Bippy]

I do agree to that

Also if they didnt force her to be a lady she wouldn't have been so rebellious.

What is so rebellious about getting attacked by Joffrey?

[Audrey Arryn]

What is so rebellious about getting attacked by Joffrey?

Not that particular situation her overall character.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

It's kind of a weak point in the reader that we focus so heavily on Lady, who is an animal and whose character is never developed even to the extent that Ghost's is. The death of the human being involved in this incident is secondary to the animal, because the human being was lowborn and the animal was bonded to a highborn PoV. I think it's GRRM's play on Sansa's unreliable narrator.

I think the death of Mycah has gotten more than enough attention as part of what helps to develop Arya and teach her a little about the world.

[Minsc]

What is so rebellious about getting attacked by Joffrey?

Not Blaming Arya: But, Joffrey does only attack Mycah because he believes he stand up against some upstart peasant who has been hitting the sister of his betrothed.

[Bippy]

I think the death of Mycah has gotten more than enough attention as part of what helps to develop Arya and teach her a little about the world.

You think? We're still hearing about the end of Lady well into AFfC. Mycah not so much.

[Audrey Arryn]

It's kind of a weak point in the reader that we focus so heavily on Lady, who is an animal and whose character is never developed even to the extent that Ghost's is. The death of the human being involved in this incident is secondary to the animal, because the human being was lowborn and the animal was bonded to a highborn PoV. I think it's GRRM's play on Sansa's unreliable narrator.

I do agree that most readers, including myself, seem to focus more on the effects of characters on other characters but completely forget about the lowborn in the series, like Mycah, which I think isnt soo good.

[Bippy]

Not Blaming Arya: But, Joffrey does only attack Mycah because he believes he stand up against some upstart peasant who has been hitting the sister of his betrothed.

The fact that said sister is telling him NOT to attack Mycah is irrelevant to Joffrey, of course. Poor old Mycah is just a pawn among the lot of them.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

You think? We're still hearing about the end of Lady well into AFfC. Mycah not so much.

Lady's impact and the foreshadowing associated with her death is a lot more open ended than Mycah's death. He's in Arya's heart and we remember him as being the innocent victim of another Lannister atrocity. Lady, she's an innocent victim who left a lot more to talk about.

[Minsc]

It's kind of a weak point in the reader that we focus so heavily on Lady, who is an animal and whose character is never developed even to the extent that Ghost's is. The death of the human being involved in this incident is secondary to the animal, because the human being was lowborn and the animal was bonded to a highborn PoV. I think it's GRRM's play on Sansa's unreliable narrator.

The entire scene of the trial and aftermath is in Ned's POV, thus how does it reveal Sansa's unreliable narrator? Moreover, Mycah was obviously dead beforehand thus it makes no sense how the trial impacted his death.

[A Man Has Said]

Ninja'd because I was looking in the wrong chapter. It was Eddard IV. Then my internet connection mysteriously went down.

Here's the passage:

Eddard Stark sat dazed beside the table, the dagger in his hand. Bran's wolf had saved the boy's life, he thought dully. What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's, and for what? Was it guilt he was feeling? Or fear? If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done?

[Bippy]

The entire scene of the trial and aftermath is in Ned's POV, thus how does it reveal Sansa's unreliable narrator? Moreover, Mycah was obviously dead beforehand thus it makes no sense how the trial impacted his death.

It doesn't reveal Sansa's unreliable narrator: Sansa's issues are clear in her PoV. It makes the reader complicit in the lack of perspective that Joffrey, the Hound, and Sansa demonstrated. I'm talking about the problem with the way in which the narrative is defined. It's not about a boy. It's about a wolf.

ETA: the only character who demonstrates an awareness of the fracture here, actually, is Jaime, who was ALSO riding down a child to maim her on the same night. [Hmm, now that I think about it, I'm not sure which of the nights of the incident it was. I've assigned it to the same night Mycah died but I may well be wrong.] He is the only one who volunteers a recap of what took place to the humans.

Lady, she's an innocent victim who left a lot more to talk about.

Did she?

[Squire Dalbridge]

Ok I see your point, but I still think Arya caries some blame.

As some already pointed out Sansa'a decsion change wouldnt affect the end result, but Arya's could of had she been more dutiful to her septa.

Tell me You're kidding... Aren't You?