Is Cersei really crazy?

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Sociopaths often have prefrontal cortexes that are underactive and they have trouble feeling stimulated, so they seek high risk behavior. As a child, Cersei is the one who wants to go to Maggy's tent even they're all scared. Cersei pets the lion and goads Jaime into doing the same. I don't know if GRRM knows much about forensic psychology, but if he does know about this stuff, Cersei's childhood memories are very telling.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Yes, she is crazy.

[Dire-Lion]

She was always the delusional paranoid person who was the architect of her own misery. When she receives the prophecy from Maggy the Frog, she murders Melara Heatherspoon in the belief if no one knows of the prophecy, it won't come true. But what she actually has done is made the prophecy come true by killing Melara.

The pattern by where Cersei creates her own enemies and misfortune through her own actions is established well before the events of Feast.

No there is a difference. Before Feast, she thinks Ned is her enemy and that he is moving to KL to harm her. This is more or less true. During Feast, she thinks that Margery is her enemy and trying to steal Tommen from her to take over Westeros. This isn't true, as the Margery and the Tyrells in general would be happy letting the Lannisters do the "dirty work" while operating in the shadows themselves. Also Cersei's capacity for evil changes dramatically, before Feast she was ok with sending Ned to the wall, after anyone could be sent to Qyburn for the slightest crime, she even killed the High Septon because Tyrion appointed him.

[Lord_Tyrell]

No. Cersei isn't intentionally evil. All of her actions are meant to protect her children.

Really, we can blame all of her problems on Robert. Being a victim totally justifies Cersei being a victimizer herself.

So really, Robert is the cause for everything.

You believe too much of what Cersei lies to herself. She does not do it for her children, but for herself. Sure that's what she herself believes, but her actions insanely tell otherwise.

[danm_999]

No there is a difference. Before Feast, she thinks Ned is her enemy and that he is moving to KL to harm her. This is more or less true. During Feast, she thinks that Margery is her enemy and trying to steal Tommen from her to take over Westeros. This isn't true, as the Margery and the Tyrells in general would be happy letting the Lannisters do the "dirty work" while operating in the shadows themselves. Also Cersei's capacity for evil changes dramatically, before Feast she was ok with sending Ned to the wall, after anyone could be sent to Qyburn for the slightest crime, she even killed the High Septon because Tyrion appointed him.

Melara predates anything you've got here.

[Dire-Lion]

Sociopaths often have prefrontal cortexes that are underactive and they have trouble feeling stimulated, so they seek high risk behavior. As a child, Cersei is the one who wants to go to Maggy's tent even they're all scared. Cersei pets the lion and goads Jaime into doing the same. I don't know if GRRM knows much about forensic psychology, but if he does know about this stuff, Cersei's childhood memories are very telling.

Interesting point, I don't know enough about psychology to be able to diagnose her with anything, which is why I had to resort to using "crazy". What I do is that sociopaths can blend into society until they become angry or are involved in some sort of trauma. Usually they do things like overreacting to slight insults or not panicing in a car accident. Which fits in with Cersei.

Melara predates anything you've got here.

That's true, but Melara seems to be a single event from everything pre-PW, so it is very different. After the PW, she thinks that the entire world is out to get her, not just specific people.

[danm_999]

That's true, but Melara seems to be a single event from everything pre-PW, so it is very different. After the PW, she thinks that the entire world is out to get her, not just specific people.

It's not different, it's just the inciting incident.

And she thinks the entire world is out to get her before AFFC.

[Arya kiddin']

One thing people should acknowledge here, is that Cersei is not purely evil. Her capability to show love, if only for her children shows that. Firstly we have no 'proof' for Melara. Even if she actually did that, then we have to go back and see the parental conditioning she has received all her life.

For a girl who grew up without her mother, only in the shadow of her father who was a cold and cruel man, she held to the belief that to be seen as strong entails a blatant show of power and cruelty. A girl who thinks herself equal to her twin in all regards, when realizes that the world will discriminate between them only because one has a cock and one has teats, got into thinking that to be seen as strong she has to make a show that she doesn't flinch away from cruelty. It wasn't like she was born evil or crazy, it was a gradual process. And add to it that despite constantly being called the most beautiful woman in the realm, which she admittedly was, she was snubbed not once but twice.

So people saying that her only redeemable qualities are her being a character amusing to read (and her cheekbones) should think twice. I think her most redeemable quality is that she still loves her children and feels protective for them.I would also maintain that her 'crazy' has grown on her because of growing up with the lack of a mother. And don't quote other women who did alright when they grew up without a mother. People are different, they're not peas in a pod.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

One thing people should acknowledge here, is that Cersei is not purely evil. Her capability to show love, if only for her children shows that. Firstly we have no 'proof' for Melara. Even if she actually did that, then we have to go back and see the parental conditioning she has received all her life.

For a girl who grew up without her mother, only in the shadow of her father who was a cold and cruel man, she held to the belief that to be seen as strong entails a blatant show of power and cruelty. A girl who thinks herself equal to her twin in all regards, when realizes that the world will discriminate between them only because one has a cock and one has teats, got into thinking that to be seen as strong she has to make a show that she doesn't flinch away from cruelty. It wasn't like she was born evil or crazy, it was a gradual process. And add to it that despite constantly being called the most beautiful woman in the realm, which she admittedly was, she was snubbed not once but twice.

So people saying that her only redeemable qualities are her being a character amusing to read (and her cheekbones) should think twice. I think her most redeemable quality is that she still loves her children and feels protective for them.I would also maintain that her 'crazy' has grown on her because of growing up with the lack of a mother. And don't quote other women who did alright when they grew up without a mother. People are different, they're not peas in a pod.

:crying:

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

You believe too much of what Cersei lies to herself. She does not do it for her children, but for herself. Sure that's what she herself believes, but her actions insanely tell otherwise.

:agree: I always got the feeling that she enjoys being cruel to people and she only tells herself it's to protect herself and her kids. Nobody wants to believe they're a bad person.

[Sansa_Stark]

One thing people should acknowledge here, is that Cersei is not purely evil. Her capability to show love, if only for her children shows that. Firstly we have no 'proof' for Melara. Even if she actually did that, then we have to go back and see the parental conditioning she has received all her life.

For a girl who grew up without her mother, only in the shadow of her father who was a cold and cruel man, she held to the belief that to be seen as strong entails a blatant show of power and cruelty. A girl who thinks herself equal to her twin in all regards, when realizes that the world will discriminate between them only because one has a cock and one has teats, got into thinking that to be seen as strong she has to make a show that she doesn't flinch away from cruelty. It wasn't like she was born evil or crazy, it was a gradual process. And add to it that despite constantly being called the most beautiful woman in the realm, which she admittedly was, she was snubbed not once but twice.

So people saying that her only redeemable qualities are her being a character amusing to read (and her cheekbones) should think twice. I think her most redeemable quality is that she still loves her children and feels protective for them.I would also maintain that her 'crazy' has grown on her because of growing up with the lack of a mother. And don't quote other women who did alright when they grew up without a mother. People are different, they're not peas in a pod.

Cersei has a vision of Melara looking at her with accusing eyes in Dance. Pretty sure that is proof. And you are basically excusing Cersei's actions by making her a victim. Nothing that she has experienced or has grown up with justifies her actions. She got snubbed twice by royalty? Is that something she should really be caring about as a 34 year old woman?

[Arya kiddin']

Cersei has a vision of Melara looking at her with accusing eyes in Dance. Pretty sure that is proof. And you are basically excusing Cersei's actions by making her a victim. Nothing that she has experienced or has grown up with justifies her actions. She got snubbed twice by royalty? Is that something she should really be caring about as a 34 year old woman?

I'm not defending her. I'm saying that she has grown up to be this gradually. It was a series of events each taking toll on her moral standing. Yes now she is crazy and evil, but I merely wanted to discuss what lead to it, rather than just labelling her as a brute that you will put in Gregor Clegane's category,

[Fire Eater]

She had to know. Olenna would never put Margaery in a position where she might drink poisoned wine by accident.

Unless she put the poison in Joffrey's personal chalice, and the poison works instantly. The moment Joffrey drank from the chalice it was clear the wine was poisoned, no one else would drink it.

[Sansa_Stark]

I'm not defending her. I'm saying that she has grown up to be this gradually. It was a series of events each taking toll on her moral standing. Yes now she is crazy and evil, but I merely wanted to discuss what lead to it, rather than just labelling her as a brute that you will put in Gregor Clegane's category,

but gregor has those nasty headaches which make him the way he is.

[LordStoneheart]

Nah she just likes to get her swerve on...

[Arya kiddin']

but gregor has those nasty headaches which make him the way he is.

That is from his addiction to poppy.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

That is from his addiction to poppy.

Is anybody else picturing Gregor as a Trainspotting character?

[LordStoneheart]

Is anybody else picturing Gregor as a Trainspotting character?

Choose knighthood. Choose life.

[Sansa_Stark]

That is from his addiction to poppy.

Pretty sure its the other way around. Gregor's headaches is why he became addicted to poppy.

Either way, Gregor has more excuses than Cersei for the way he is.

[Arya kiddin']

Pretty sure its the other way around. Gregor's headaches is why he became addicted to poppy.

Either way, Gregor has more excuses than Cersei for the way he is.

Can you elaborate a little more?