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Is he an oaf?


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#1 Drexyon7

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

So who exactly states Mace is an oaf? We here it from Cersei who thinks everyone is a moron.
Olenna to me uses the term endearingly and shouldn't taken too seriously.
So who calls Mace an oaf? He has kept his army and family out of immediate danger since Robert's rebellion and is one of the most powerful men in Westeros. I don't think he's that dumb, by no means a schemer but I read a post equating him to Balon in intelligence and I thought that was bunk.

#2 Littlefingers In The Air

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:55 PM

Really? I guess.

#3 LordStoneheart

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:55 PM

I think he gets a bad reputation because he's fat. Otherwise, he seems to have made some good decisions. Who else can say they've backed two opposite kings in the middle of a way and suffered few losses?

#4 Rhymes with Weak

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

Olenna doesn't really like men in general.

#5 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

Olenna doesn't really like men in general.

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#6 Arthur Dayne's Honor

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

Olenna doesn't really like men in general.

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#7 Nyrhex

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

I've said it once, and I'll repeat. Both Mace and Stannis can claim to do more than any other "player", and thier "game" is practically none-existant.

Willas sound like a great guy.
Garlan's picture is in the dictionarry next to "perfect knight" (unless he really killed Joffrey, and then he should be next to BAMF), and scored a lordship.
Loras is in the Kingsguard.
Marg is queen.
Mace is Hand of the King, and soon regent.
Two bannermen on the small council.

Marg is held by the faith? Goes to KL with:

1. 4 companions.
2. 200 of his best men.
3. Tarly's army.
4. Mace's and Tarly's armies. Just to be on the safe side...

Gotta love lord puff fish.

#8 chrisdaw

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

Olenna complains she is never listened to, that Mace only cares about having a daughter for a queen to feed his ego and that they never should have married Maergary to Renly or Joff. There's nothing endearing about it.

#9 Petyr Patter

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

During Robert's Rebellion, Mace defended the Targaryen dynasty by braving laying siege to Storm's End with the full might of Highgarden behind him. In doing so he kept the garrison of 500 penned up and unable to contribute to the war.

Meanwhile, Rhaegar lost at the battle of the Trident, and Tywin Lannister sacked King's Landing.

And there are other things. The fact he's willing to give the Iron Islands the North and independence. Because, that would totally be a stable situation. The fact he seems to really want Cersei convicted of Incest, despite it meaning Tommen would be a bastard and thus not the rightful king and say hello to your old friend Stannis, Mace.

#10 Queen Daenerys

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

Olenna seems to be the brains behind a lot of decisions, but it's hard to tell to what extent. Olenna seems to trust him enough to go back to Highgarden and leave him in charge, so he's probably not stupid.

#11 juanml82

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:21 PM

Well, by reading Kevan's epilogue, it's clear Mace is an oaf

#12 Drexyon7

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

During Robert's Rebellion, Mace defended the Targaryen dynasty by braving laying siege to Storm's End with the full might of Highgarden behind him. In doing so he kept the garrison of 500 penned up and unable to contribute to the war.

Meanwhile, Rhaegar lost at the battle of the Trident, and Tywin Lannister sacked King's Landing.

And there are other things. The fact he's willing to give the Iron Islands the North and independence. Because, that would totally be a stable situation. The fact he seems to really want Cersei convicted of Incest, despite it meaning Tommen would be a bastard and thus not the rightful king and say hello to your old friend Stannis, Mace.


So when Roose conserves his troops he's playing the game and brilliant but when Mace does it he is an oaf? From what we see of his character Mace is looking out for Mace. There is a reason the Tyrells essentially sat out of RR and consequently are one of the most powerful houses for it.

#13 H'ghar the Horribler

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

Angling with Cersei for becoming Hand at Tywin's funeral, in public *WAS* pretty stupid... Mace is nowhere near Balon-levels of stupidity though.

#14 Lady Fevre Dream

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:55 PM

Well, by reading Kevan's epilogue, it's clear Mace is an oaf


I have to agree, The Hand 'throne' clinches it for me, he's somewhat of an idiot.

#15 Mr Bell

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:59 PM

During Robert's Rebellion, Mace defended the Targaryen dynasty by braving laying siege to Storm's End with the full might of Highgarden behind him. In doing so he kept the garrison of 500 penned up and unable to contribute to the war.


This worked in Mace's favor a lot. It seems he was almost playing both sides.

If the Crown won, Mace can at least say he helped because he laid siege to Robert the rebel's home.

If the rebels won, well, at least Mace didn't really contribute to the fight against them, so they could easily be accepted back into the fold.

Mace isn't a genius, but I don't think he's as much of an idiot as people make him out to be. Just look at the future he's set up for his children. One is his heir, one started his own cadet branch, one is a member of the KG (still a prestigious order despite some of the current members), and one is a Queen. That's really, really good.

Edited by Mr Bell, 14 September 2013 - 09:01 PM.


#16 Apple Martini

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

During Robert's Rebellion, Mace defended the Targaryen dynasty by braving laying siege to Storm's End with the full might of Highgarden behind him. In doing so he kept the garrison of 500 penned up and unable to contribute to the war.

Meanwhile, Rhaegar lost at the battle of the Trident, and Tywin Lannister sacked King's Landing.


I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you're being sarcastic with this or not. They sat outside the castle on their asses and just kept the Storm's End guys pinned in. There was no actual fighting. I'm not saying that isn't a contribution, but it does not make him some decorated soldier or a tactical genius. And obviously the siege wasn't entirely successful because Davos and his onions got through.

Mace isn't a genius, but I don't think he's as much of an idiot as people make him out to be. Just look at the future he's set up for his children. One is his heir, one started his own cadet branch, one is a member of the KG (still a prestigious order despite some of the current members), and one is a Queen. That's really, really good.


I'd be more willing to give him credit for this if I didn't suspect that Olenna was really the brains behind the entire thing.

Edited by Apple Martini, 14 September 2013 - 09:12 PM.


#17 Mr Hodor

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

If Kevan thinks someone is an oaf, i am inclined to believe it. However is is surrounded by some intelligent people. The siege of storm's end seems like Tarly or redwyne idea. Same with backing renly and the joffrey..

However he isnt Cersei or Balon level stupid.

#18 Lord of Dragonstone

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:17 PM

He might not be an oaf but at least as a military tactician he doesn't seem particularly skilled by any means.

#19 chrisdaw

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:23 PM

He actually believes in the pageantry after Blackwater, that Joff was the brave glorious hero who steeled his forces in defence of KL.

#20 LordStoneheart

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:25 PM

He actually believes in the pageantry after Blackwater, that Joff was the brave glorious hero who steeled his forces in defence of KL.


I have two defenses for this... 1. He had to. He was marrying his daughter to her, joining their families. It would not do for him to think Joffrey the coward he was or deny the story in public. 2. No one told him otherwise. Tyrion didn't get the credit he deserved from anyone except TV Varys, I believe.