BKev Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pycelle was aware of the Jaime/Cersei relationship and he knew the truth about their children. He made sure Jon Arryn would die from his poisoning and more, all to serve the Lannisters and protect Cersei's and Jaime's secret. Pycelle being no dummy, he must have made the connection between Jon inquiring about the book, putting two and two together with help of the description of the Baratheon line.This has always bugged me. I think it would occur to anyone that the book helped support the theory that Cersei's children were Jaime's and not Robert's. So why would Pycelle give Ned the book, and to go even further, why would he tell him Jon's last words? These two things in particular are strongly tied to what Jon and Stannis were looking for, and hence the reason why Ned would want the same things is rather obvious. Even if he wasn't aware of it yet or suspicious about it, these would definitely put him on the right track. It just seems to me that some easy lies could have gone a long way for the Lannister side on those two matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meeraculous Third Reed Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I imagine not giving it to him would raise somewhat more suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I don't think Pycelle was actually aware of J+C=J+M+T, but he only knew that Cersei was afraid of Jon Arryn for some reason. Otherwise, yes, I doubt he would have told Ned about either the book or the last words.Edit: Having reread the passage, I'm not so sure anymore. At least Tyrion seems to think Pycelle did know (though his actual sentence was cut off, like so many interesting Pycelle statements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 1. It would seem odd if he disobeyed2. He was trying to implicate Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 He did attempt some spirited discouragement! 'A ponderous tome, I fear, my lord' - up there with Wormtongue's 'A just question, my liege!' in terms of comedic underling dissimulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnivil Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 To the people saying "It would have looked bad if he disobeyed." Why tell him in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggle Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 didnt peter have lysa poison jon ? and the lannisters had no part in jons death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 He could just give him a different book. He didn't really think. Also, Pycelle probably didn't believe Jon was poisoned. He said Tyrion he didn't do his best to cure him, but it doesn't mean he didn't think it wasn't a disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It is interesting he didn't think to lie about not having the book to dissuade Ned's investigation. Ned presents a more formidable threat to the Lannisters than Jon Arryn. I can't think of any reason besides Pycelle hoping Ned would not put two and two together. In fact, he didn't realize what Jon was searching for until Sansa made a comment about Joffrey giving her beautiful blond children... Or was that just the TV show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I imagine not giving it to him would raise somewhat more suspicion.This. And I'm sire he reported it to Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKev Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 didnt peter have lysa poison jon ? and the lannisters had no part in jons death?Yes, LF manipulated Lysa into poisoning Jon. However, it's strongly implied that Pycelle let him die and didn't provide his best care in the scene where Tyrion threatens him with his clansmen. If I recall, Jon was being cared for by another maester and Pycelle forced his way in to replace said maester because he was doing a good job, and it was better for the Lannisters if Jon died.And yes indeed, we can bring the question further, why mention the book at all? It just seems that Pycelle has a bad case of shallow thinking about the whole thing, which boggles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester2chainz Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pycelle may have known about the incest, but it doesn't matter because Pycelle thought nothing of the plot to kill Jon Aryn because he was not involved. That was all LF and Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It is interesting he didn't think to lie about not having the book to dissuade Ned's investigation. Ned presents a more formidable threat to the Lannisters than Jon Arryn. I can't think of any reason besides Pycelle hoping Ned would not put two and two together. In fact, he didn't realize what Jon was searching for until Sansa made a comment about Joffrey giving her beautiful blond children... Or was that just the TV show?Yes, that was in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think Pycelle did the safest thing in the circumstances. Telling the truth when approached directly by the Hand of the King carried far less of a risk to Pycelle than lying to him about Arryn's investigation. With Baratheon still King, and two Hands in a row sniffing around Cercei's secret, should the truth have ever reached Robert, Pycelle's deliberate blocking of the investigation and his role in Arryn's death would have come under suspicion and could have risked his neck. As it turned out, there were no repercussions for Pycelle with Cercei. By telling the Hand the truth and the Queen what the Hand was doing, he walked a safe path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tongue Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 As far as Pycelle was concerned Joffrey was Robert's and there would've been no reason for him to think that the book contained any information of consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 As far as Pycelle was concerned Joffrey was Robert's and there would've been no reason for him to think that the book contained any information of consequence.He most certainly knew. He pretty much admitted it to Tyrion when Tyrion had Shagga give him a shave. That's why Pycelle made sure Jon didna recover from the poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae Boleyn Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ned worked it out mostly through blind luck - he'd been focusing on the Lannister page until Sansa inadvertently gave him a eureka moment. Pycelle was probably hoping that the book being almost unreadably dull and his misdirections would be enough.Also, remember that as far as Pycelle knows, Ned has no reason to suspect the Lannisters of killing Jon Arryn - or at least no reason to suspect them more than anyone else who might want his influence ended for whatever reason. Varys might consider him a barrier to the King, Stannis or Renly might have wanted to replace him, etc. It's a royal court, there's plenty of potential motives if one is given no clue pointing to a specific group. Pycelle tries to aim Ned at Varys, unaware that Lysa and Petyr have aimed him at the Lannisters already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He could just give him a different book. He didn't really think. Also, Pycelle probably didn't believe Jon was poisoned. He said Tyrion he didn't do his best to cure him, but it doesn't mean he didn't think it wasn't a disease. Jon was being purged and Pycelle put a stop to it. I think that's a good indication he knew it was poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He is the worst political actor in KL alongside Cersei. That is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He is the worst political actor in KL alongside Cersei. That is why. A bold statement...are you counting Ned!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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