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GRRM: "Walter White vs. Westeros most evil"


AemonEightstrings

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Having had extensive experience with both BB (watched it proabably 3 times through) and Asoiaf (read the books at least 3 times each and watched the show).

Evil is evil no matter what, then again some acts will be perceived as more evil than others.

Ramsey Snow - We all know that he is sadistic and enjoys torturing and murder of his victims, we have not met any characters like him on BB. Even the recent Tod and Jessie stuff is childs play when compared to Ramsey.

The Mountain that Rides (Murder, Torture and Rape)

Tywin Lannister (Sacking of Kings Landing and the aftermath come to mind, Orchestrating of the RW etc)

Qyburn (Live human experimentation)

Walder Frey

and many others who have done 'wrong' things that would probably elevate themselves above Walt on the Evil scale.

Breaking Bad

Walt (Murder of countless Henchmen and their Bosses, numerous other criminals either directly or through orders, Jane, the poisoning of Brock etc) - Walt in the grand scheme of things is Evil but I'd say that some of those he eliminated were times when his hand was forced in order to protect his Family, Jesse. Not an excuse but his motives have to be taken into consideration with each victim)

Gus

Skyler? (She supported him only a few episodes ago)

Mike (liked by many including me, but a bad guy)

Jesse?

What do you guys think? Am I being harsh on Skyler and Jesse considering who they are associated with? Should I remove characters that do not have blood on their hands personally?

Expand my small list if you wish or remove characters and see where it goes!

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Breaking Bad

Walt (Murder of countless Henchmen and their Bosses, numerous other criminals either directly or through orders, Jane, the poisoning of Brock etc) - Walt in the grand scheme of things is Evil but I'd say that some of those he eliminated were times when his hand was forced in order to protect his Family, Jesse. Not an excuse but his motives have to be taken into consideration with each victim)

Gus

Skyler? (She supported him only a few episodes ago)

Mike (liked by many including me, but a bad guy)

Jesse?

What do you guys think? Am I being harsh on Skyler and Jesse considering who they are associated with? Should I remove characters that do not have blood on their hands personally?

Expand my small list if you wish or remove characters and see where it goes!

I wouldn't say Skyler is evil, just morally ambiguous once she started working with Walt. I don't think she "broke bad," just that she was willing to go along with Walt's crimes because she thought it was in her and her family's best interest. Jesse is definitely a tough one because you can see his redeeming qualities and that he got sucked into something much larger than he could have ever imagined. However, he has been an accomplice in Walt's crimes (more than Skyler was) and he murdered Gale.

So, back to ASOIAF, I wouldn't say those two were exactly "evil," just morally ambiguous and something you would find in ASOIAF. For example, while I really hope this doesn't happen, Sansa could be like Skyler if she continues to work with Littlefinger.

Walt, though? I think he's a monster because he shows how people who lead normal, mundane lives can be driven to commit horrible crimes when given the proper motive. Like the show says at the beginning - "It is growth, then decay, then transformation." And even now, although he has done terrible things that I hate him for, I can't deny that he still does love his family even after all he's put them through. Personally, I find that more compelling than Ramsay who is without a doubt more evil than Walt ever has been. We see a lot of power-hungry, vicious characters in the series but Walter White is a reminder that every one of us is capable of becoming a monster as well.

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For there to be a Walter White in Westeros it has to be someone seemingly incorruptible and innocent in nature that falls from Grace. I wonder who GRRM has in mind if his comment was serious and he tries to out evil Walter. The evilest people are always those no one expects.

Stannis, the future Night King, sounds like a good option for that.

The thing about Walt is that he believes he's doing bad things for a good and moral reason. Someone like that can actually be more dangerous than someone who just enjoys tormenting people for the Hell of it.

Those kind of people are the most frightening kind of evil. A sadist will stop once they are bored, but someone who believes they are doing God's will shall persevere through any anguish they may feel their acts cause them out of fear that they will fail god. In war there is also a mindset where, while they recognize the cruelty and brutality of their actions, people see their actions and the anguish it causes them as patriotic sacrifices.
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Skylar actually asked Walter to kill Jesse, after the gas incident. Thus what some refer to as the rise of Skysenburg, hahah.

Walter's crimes are mostly emotionally driven, but sometimes survival based. Providing for his family is an excuse to break bad. It's such a good excuse that it fools many viewers.

There might be some similarity to Littlefinger, as his motives in continuing his game don't fully make sense. He's in essence a man who has pulled off one of the biggest heists in history, but instead of enjoying the results of that heist and vanishing somewhere, he's continuing to play a dangerous game that will probaly result in his death. (A nasty death, considering it's a GRRM book)

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The thing about Walt is that he believes he's doing bad things for a good and moral reason. Someone like that can actually be more dangerous than someone who just enjoys tormenting people for the Hell of it.

True, thats what makes zealots and radical, religous fanatics so scary. Therein lie the hitlers of the world

Goodness gracious! How did a discussion about the motives of a drug-pushing thug get twisted in to a discussion about the evils of religion. Sounds like certain fanatics (of a different sort) have an ax to grind of their own.

Anyhow, I disagree. Walt's actions are not bad BECAUSE he believes there is such thing as good and evil. Walt's actions are evil IN SPITE of any such belief he may have.

If there is no such thing as good and evil, then there is no way Walt's actions can be labeled as "evil" at all.

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Walter white can be only compared to pyromancer for his vast knowledge in chemistry for making explosives, toxins and meth and by which he earned million dollars on meth. Did Anyone know the monthly income of pyromancer ?

Well, since WW had over $80 million saved when he stopped, thinking he had more than a pyromancer!

I like the comparison to Tyrion the most because of the intelligence factor. Ramsey is just a sadist, not evil IMO. WW started out with what he considered the right intentions but it all went to hell and each mistake led him farther away from who he was in the begining.

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All in all I think he was just paying a compliment to what is a very very good show. I came to it late but have now seen all the episodes and have experienced the rooting for WW to now not liking him in one month! At this point I wish he was dead too! Last episode did that for me. Not the scene with Jessie, although it was really harsh( I saw her die...). But when his son found out and defended Skylar...to me that is the end for me rooting for Walt.

Hopefully Tyrion doesn't reach that point. He is close to it now.

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The nearest parallel would be Wader Frey. Both believe that the heinous actions they have committed is down to the importance they have on their families when in reality it is down to their own pride. Both of them are constantly looked down on despite one being the 2nd(or maybe even most) powerful men in the Riverlands and the other a very intelligent scientist and then a premium drug maker. Both men are underestimated by the majority of people who deal with them and are never expected to do the crimes they do.

Both were offered decent terms, but less than they wanted when the going was tough (5m for Walt/ Tully for Frey) and seemed to go along with it before backing out the deal, taking control and then getting an even better deal than they ever negotiated for in the first place(Riverrun&Darry/80m in cash) before everything came crashing down with their families suffering the most...

...Well it has for Walt and presumably will for Frey if the majority of predictions are correct.

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