The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Westeros Map Poster
Westeros Map Poster
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Jon's Immediate Future


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#1 Little Balerion

Little Balerion

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 311 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:43 AM

I have noticed most of the readers seem pretty optimistic that Jon is coming back to life.

My question is that even if Jon returns - will he ever be Jon Snow again?

We have seen what happened to a resurrected Catelyn - she changed forever. We view her as a completely different person/undead.

Jon has some possibilities:
1> He warged into Ghost or another creature.
2> He is unconscious.
3> He is dead - and will be resurrected a la Lady Stoneheart. unJon.
4> Someone is sacrificed to resurrect him. (Only death can pay for life?) unJon again?

Unless Jon is in an unconscious state, which seems unlikely - I don't see Jon returning as himself. And if Jon returns to life as anything besides Jon Snow, I think his claim as King doesn't stand a chance. (Who would want an undead King?) That would make Dany the sole heir to the throne.
Thoughts?

#2 Northbound

Northbound

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,193 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:13 AM

This is what I think of, everytime I hear the phrase "unjon" /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

Mel has never even hinted that she can do the "kiss." Cat will be in the Riverlands for the foreseeable future. Who the hell is going to give Jon the "Kiss." Do people really think that Bran, with the help of BR; will let some walking zombie bring back his beloved brother or let him become one!!! If Jon, needs to be brought back to life, it will be done by the power of the Old Gods; via blood magic. "Only death. can pay for LIFE." Notice the bold part, life....not half life or "un-whateverTheHell."

Edited by Northbound, 20 September 2013 - 09:50 AM.


#3 Jon The Mannis

Jon The Mannis

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:17 AM

He is still alive.

#4 Drogon'sWrath

Drogon'sWrath

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 356 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:26 AM

I'm in the camp that doesn't think he died. He probably warged into Ghost and he might be out of commission for a little while, but he's not dead.

#5 Darilon

Darilon

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:28 AM

I hope it is not a perfect resurrection. Even Beric's resurrection had its disadvantages and it would be really lame if he came back exactly the same. I think he will come back but don't actually think we will get any Jon POV chapters in the next book.

#6 Ghost's Shadow

Ghost's Shadow

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,074 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:29 AM

I don't think there's any hint toward The Last Hero (I take him as synonym of tPtwP and AA) was in fact an undead zombie, and that means Jon needs to be one as well, so I don't think he's going to be one.

It's been set up that he'll be a man, then a wolf, and then a man again. Not a half-man (har).

He might be a bit different of character because of the experience of being stabbed by his men, but I don't really see him becoming more wolf or have a 180° change of character like some others want for the sake of drama.

#7 Little Balerion

Little Balerion

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 311 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

I just don't buy the theory that he wargs into Ghost, then returns into himself after while. Won't his body be cold, and dead?

#8 Northbound

Northbound

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,193 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

Not a half-man (har).


Easy with the wise cracks; Shagga, son of Dolf! /lmao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmao:' />

#9 The Weirwoods Eyes

The Weirwoods Eyes

    Must think of something Witty to say here.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:41 AM

I'm in the Jon won't actually die camp. I think he's stabbed he's going top be badly wounded and require a period of convalescence during which he'll learn more about his Warg ability and spend time consciously in Ghost. The Wildling healers and warriors will nurse him. I think Boraq might well teach him about Skinchanging. I really really really don't want to see UnJon.

#10 Jon's Queen Consort

Jon's Queen Consort

    Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,735 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

snip

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' /> Old Gods ≠ R'hllor's kiss.

#11 Dornish Whine

Dornish Whine

    Great with cheese!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 811 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

I just don't buy the theory that he wargs into Ghost, then returns into himself after while. Won't his body be cold, and dead?


Mel's vision of him as a man, then wolf, then man again seems to foreshadow him warging into Ghost for awhile. We have seen other wargs use their familiars to seek second lives as well (Orell, Varamyr). I think there is plenty of textual evidence to back up this idea.

In regards to his body... well he may not be dead. If he is in a coma like state due to severe injuries his body could be kept alive. During this time we would see something like what happened with Bran. Jon's third eye would open, so to speak, and he would occupy Ghost's skin until his body has healed.

It is also possible that his body is dead and someone like Mel (or possibly Val) could bring him back. There is even the possibility of blood sacrifice, as was maybe hinted at in a TWOW gift chapter.

As to his mental state when he returns, if he has indeed died; he may not be broken like Beric or Cat because his soul found refuge in Ghost and so never actually 'crossed over' to the realm of death. Though I find the 'coma' idea more likely as this would mirror what happened to Bran.

Edited by Dornish Whine, 20 September 2013 - 09:46 AM.


#12 yolkboy

yolkboy

    fried by r'hllor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,058 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

This is what I think of, everytime I hear the phrase "unjon" /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />


If Jon has warged ghost and gets ressurected in-as-much-as he's 'put back' into his body - his mind would never have been dead and therefore probably wouldnt be an 'unjon'. I agree that a 'kiss' won't be involved, IMO.

#13 Drogon'sWrath

Drogon'sWrath

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 356 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:49 AM

I just don't buy the theory that he wargs into Ghost, then returns into himself after while. Won't his body be cold, and dead?

You have to leave your body every time you warg, at least from what I understand. That's why Jojen would tell Bran not to spend too much time in Summer. Also, there is heavy foreshadowing that this is the case. Mel saw Jon in the flames, then Ghost, then Jon again. It seems likely that this refers to him warging into Ghost after being stabbed, and after some time going back to his body.

#14 Northbound

Northbound

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,193 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

Don't get me wrong. If Jon, has to come back; there will be some sort of toll. I'm hoping it will be a good thing. I'd love to see, a little more wolf and dragon out of Jon!

Edited by Northbound, 20 September 2013 - 09:54 AM.


#15 Tall-Talker

Tall-Talker

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 269 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:01 AM

This is what I think of, everytime I hear the phrase "unjon" /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />


Same here.

I personally believe he'll be back from a coma or death (walks out of the pyre). As to what type of person he'll be I have no idea. Hopefully the good parts of the Jon we know will still be there.
The first thing he does need to do though is get the Wall in order because that sh*tstorm does not look good. I have a feeling Mel and the Queensmen will want to take control at the Wall.

Edited by Tall-Talker, 20 September 2013 - 10:28 AM.


#16 Dornish Whine

Dornish Whine

    Great with cheese!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 811 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:07 AM

Question about the UnJon theory:
If a person dies south of the wall that person does not become a wight. If they did all of those people that died since the wars started would've become wights. Unless I read wrong Jon was stabbed and perhaps "died" at CB and not north of the Wall. So, why do people still believe in the UnJon possibility? Is the Wall not protected by magic to prevent such a thing to happen?


Un-<somebody> doesn't refer to becoming a wight, but is rather used to refer to those resurrected that aren't quite whole. This is almost exclusively used when referring to Catelyn as Lady Stoneheart. Un-Cat, as it were. People use Un-Jon to identify the theory that Mel is going to bring him back 'broken'. We also sometimes see it used for Robert Strong, when referring to him as Un-Gregor.

At least that is my take on it.

#17 Little Balerion

Little Balerion

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 311 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:09 AM

Un-<somebody> doesn't refer to becoming a wight, but is rather used to refer to those resurrected that aren't quite whole. This is almost exclusively used when referring to Catelyn as Lady Stoneheart. Un-Cat, as it were. People use Un-Jon to identify the theory that Mel is going to bring him back 'broken'. We also sometimes see it used for Robert Strong, when referring to him as Un-Gregor.

At least that is my take on it.

I agree. I never meant Jon's resurrection as a wight. That wouldn't be called a resurrection.

#18 thedudex

thedudex

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

I've always thought the most obvious thing is he is not dead, warged into ghost, and will return to his body after a while. My first read I came away with this becasue he says "Ghost" and I was reaching out to him at that point.
To me this seems the most likely and obvious scenario, and also falls in line with the Prologue of the book as well.

#19 Robin the Mighty

Robin the Mighty

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:17 AM

This is what I think of, everytime I hear the phrase "unjon" /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bs.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bs:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

Mel has never even hinted that she can do the "kiss." Cat will be in the Riverlands for the foreseeable future. Who the hell is going to give Jon the "Kiss." Do people really think that Bran, with the help of BR; will let some walking zombie bring back his beloved brother or let him become one!!! If Jon, needs to be brought back to life, it will be done by the power of the Old Gods; via blood magic. "Only death. can pay for LIFE." Notice the bold part, life....not half life or "un-whateverTheHell."

What is with the huge font?

#20 Dornish Whine

Dornish Whine

    Great with cheese!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 811 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

What is with the huge font?


I believe he was yelling. It is a bit of a rant. Not that I disagree with any of it, mind you /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />