The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Khal Drogo Women's T-Shirt
Women’s T-Shirt Khal Drogo
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Sansa Stark and Arya Stark relationship


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#1 The Others vs Westeros

The Others vs Westeros

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

Greetings everyone.I'm a newbie in this forum and a die hard fan of the book series.Everyone can remember that the two Stark girls had a shaky sisterly relationship due to the differences of their characteristics.Since the incident when Lady was wrongfully ended by Eddard Stark thanks to Joffrey's lie and Sansa avoiding to tell the truth,the two siblings did not get close as were before they left Winterfell.

I had a thought that I wish to state in this topic whether it had been mentioned before or not.When Sansa told Cersei about her father's plan to leave King's Landing for Winterfell,Arya did not know that Sansa had the intention to play out their father which resulted in his execution.So,Arya would have thought that Cersei did all of this without knowing the real truth behind her father's arrest.

Now with the upcoming book coming out next year if it really happens,once Arya returns to Westeros as a different person,will she find her sister and ask about the truth?Or will she go to places like King's Landing,Oldtown,White Harbor or Gulltown hearing whispers about Ned's execution?

If so,when she confronts Sansa about the truth,will she ended up killing her own sister due to her naivety or forgive her for her own mistake?As readers know that Arya is closer to Ned than Sansa is to her father.This is only a thought in my opinion.Because when Daenarys can do it to Viserys,why not Arya on Sansa?

Thanks for reading.

#2 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,516 posts

Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:55 PM

Welcome to the forum...

Alas, this OP has so many wrong assumptions:

1. Sansa didn't contributed to Lady's death. It was beyond her reach, and nothing she could have said would change the fact Cersei wanted direwolves dead.
2. Sansa's conversation with Cersei never led to Ned's execution. That was completely on Joffrey and whomever talked him to do that, IMO LF.
3. Sansa played small role in her father's arrest. there is a long list of people who participated in Ned's demise, so we can't blame it entirely on Sansa.
4. What whispers? It is not like it is a public knowledge what Sansa did.
5. Actually, between two sisters, Sansa is the one resembling more to Ned than Arya.
6. You compare Dany/Viserys situation with Sansa/Arya... Boy, that is a wrong comparison...

Sorry, but, in all sincerity, sisters will have a lot to talk about, but I doubt it will come to Dany/Viserys situation. There is nothing unsolvable between them... After all, wolves are not animals that would hurt members of its own pack... So, no, we won't see Arya killing Sansa in any way...

Edited by Mladen, 25 September 2013 - 11:56 PM.


#3 The Others vs Westeros

The Others vs Westeros

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:29 AM

Thank you for replying.As I have stated above,thoughts not assumptions.What is inside my head with thorough thinking rather than babbling words without thinking.

Anyways,the two contributed to Cersei's decision to tell Robert to end either of the direwolves lives.And the next point is had Cersei not been told by Sansa,which is a bonus to Cersei,her plan would not have gone easier as Ned wanted to leave in secret thus disrupting Cersei's plans.And yes,Joffrey's madness thanks to Cersei's way of raising him.And remember,Cersei had her own plans due to Ned's stupidity.

Purple Wedding?Everyone make whispers about Tyrion and Sansa killing Joffrey so it is unavoidable.Everyone would had said that Ned is the one who commits treason and that is how whispers come and go.

What I have stated is that Arya has a closer relationship to Ned than Sansa's relationship to Ned.It's not about looks or characteristics.It's the bond.

And,you'll never know what GRRM might be up to.Surprises in store.

#4 A Man Has Said

A Man Has Said

    Bipolar Bear, twice as polar as a Polar Bear

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,541 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:30 AM

WELCOME to the forums TOvW! I hope you have as good a time here as I have had. /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

FYI - as you can tell from Mladen's sig, he's committed to defend and support Sansa, sometimes beyond how much she deserves it.
So you've probably already gotten the most negative reaction to your post that you're going to.

Most of the time she does deserve it, but I don't think you're that far off the mark with your criticisms of her actions regarding the Ruby Ford incident that ended with Lady's death, nor her foolishly informing Cersei of Ned's plans. Though to be fair, in that second regard she was scarcely more naive than Ned himself.

1. Sansa didn't contribute to Lady's death. It was beyond her reach, and nothing she could have said would change the fact Cersei wanted direwolves dead.

Sorry, can't agree. I wouldn't say Sansa caused Lady's demise - she's behind Joffrey and Cersei in that respect. But her failing to back up her sister's TRUE account of events definitely contributed.
I think Robert, as weak as he sometimes is portrayed when facing Cersei's wrath, would have relented had he been told that Joffrey was about to murder Mycah, and that when Arya intervened he threatened to murder her as well. So "there's nothing she could have said" is an unsupported and I would say biased opinion.

There's no way of knowing for sure of course whether Robert would have punished Joffrey, but he certainly wouldn't have punished Arya, Nymeria or Lady if he'd know that his son was in the wrong. Later in fact Robert says to Ned, "I know my son was lying - I'd stake my soul on it." He only needed to HEAR it corroborated to do the right thing.

3. Sansa played small role in her father's arrest. there is a long list of people who participated in Ned's demise, so we can't blame it entirely on Sansa.

IIRC, we never actually see what Sansa told Cersei from any point of view. We are informed about it when Cersei mentions it in a Sansa POV after Ned's arrest, thanking her for 'doing the right thing' by telling her about the plans, including the name of the ship on which they intended to sail. How big or small a role it truly played is entirely dependent on how much Cersei already knew. She probably had already figured out mosts of what Sansa told her, so it's technically true that Sansa's contribution was small - but it's also possible that it was huge, or could have been if Cersei didn't know much to begin with.

5. Actually, between two sisters, Sansa is the one resembling more to Ned than Arya.

The only thing I can think of where Sansa resembles Ned more than Arya does is that they are both incredibly naive at times. And as I already said, they're both guilty of telling Cersei WAY more than they should have.

While I disagree with Mladen's interpretation of the details, I agree with his conclusion. Even supposing that Arya somehow finds out everything about Sansa's actions in King's Landing, they are sisters who have both lost their parents and a brother (and for all either of them know, all three brothers.) They're all the family each other have. Arya would forgive Sansa in a heartbeat, and run to her in tears with open arms. I hope to read that scene in one of the upcoming novels.

#5 The Others vs Westeros

The Others vs Westeros

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

Tyrion killing Cersei and Jaime?It can happen as well.=)

#6 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,516 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:43 AM

FYI - as you can tell from Mladen's sig, he's committed to defend and support Sansa, sometimes beyond how much she deserves it.
So you've probably already gotten the most negative reaction to your post that you're going to.


I don't think I am unreasonable.. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Sorry, can't agree. I wouldn't say Sansa caused Lady's demise - she's behind Joffrey and Cersei in that respect. But her failing to back up her sister's TRUE account of events definitely contributed.
I think Robert, as weak as he sometimes is portrayed when facing Cersei's wrath, would have relented had he been told that Joffrey was about to murder Mycah, and that when Arya intervened he threatened to murder her as well. So "there's nothing she could have said" is an unsupported and I would say biased opinion.


I forgot about damn wolf. Robert's words, not mine. If Sansa told the truth, she would have exonerated Arya, but Arya was never in real danger since Robert thought the incident was children's feud. Nymeria, on the other hand, was in danger, and that is why Arya and Jory chased her away. Sansa telling the truth would only confirm that Nymeria did bit Joffrey.

There's no way of knowing for sure of course whether Robert would have punished Joffrey, but he certainly wouldn't have punished Arya, Nymeria or Lady if he'd know that his son was in the wrong. Later in fact Robert says to Ned, "I know my son was lying - I'd stake my soul on it." He only needed to HEAR it corroborated to do the right thing.


Oh, God, this is poor excuse. Robert knew Joffrey was wrong all along, but he ordered Lady's death because Cersei demanded it in open court, and because he felt direwolves are dangerous. Remember the line "get her a dog"? It shows what Robert truly felt about direwolves.

IIRC, we never actually see what Sansa told Cersei from any point of view. We are informed about it when Cersei mentions it in a Sansa POV after Ned's arrest, thanking her for 'doing the right thing' by telling her about the plans, including the name of the ship on which they intended to sail. How big or small a role it truly played is entirely dependent on how much Cersei already knew. She probably had already figured out mosts of what Sansa told her, so it's technically true that Sansa's contribution was small - but it's also possible that it was huge, or could have been if Cersei didn't know much to begin with.


In one of SSMs, Martin told us what exactly Sansa told Cersei - the name of the ship, where is Arya and how many men her father commanded in the city. But that all doesn't change that entire plot was already set when Sansa went to Cersei. Remember, the fighting began just after Sansa went to Cersei, that same morning, meaning that LF, Varys, Slynt have already betrayed Ned. But, I am not denying Sansa's part in Ned's arrest, only in his execution.

The only thing I can think of where Sansa resembles Ned more than Arya does is that they are both incredibly naive at times. And as I already said, they're both guilty of telling Cersei WAY more than they should have.


Sansa is much more like Ned. She has that somber, sometimes even introverted character. from her prayers in Godswood to snow castle scene in Eyrie, there is subtle line between quiet wolf Ned was described metaphorically and Sansa. I think people usually confuse true Northerner and Ned. Ned's code of honor was most likely installed in Eyrie by Arryn. Look at Brandon and his Northern honor...

#7 Dire-Lion

Dire-Lion

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 168 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:58 AM

TOvW- Welcome to the forums! I actually think that Sansa and Arya had a normal relationship in the beginning of ASOIAF given their ages and personalities. Given time they would have grown to be kind to each other regardless of what happened, but now considering everything they lost they will forgive and forget quite easily. Sansa and Arya have grown tremendously since they last saw each other; that combined with what they've been through will cause them to forgive each other for what happened in King's Landing. Besides if anything Arya might like Sansa more if she thought she killed Joffery.

#8 Errant Bard

Errant Bard

    Insane precursor of bad business

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,729 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:07 AM

Arya never looked back. She wished the Rush would rise and wash the whole city away, Flea Bottom and the Red Keep and the Great Sept and everything, and everyone too, especially Prince Joffrey and his mother. But she knew it wouldn't, and anyhow Sansa was still in the city and would wash away too. When she remembered that, Arya decided to wish for Winterfell instead.

Arya 1, ACOK

The grudge and need for "truth" from Arya are greatly overstated.

#9 Newstar

Newstar

    Blood of the Dragon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,711 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:13 AM

Even supposing that Arya somehow finds out everything about Sansa's actions in King's Landing, they are sisters who have both lost their parents and a brother (and for all either of them know, all three brothers.) They're all the family each other have. Arya would forgive Sansa in a heartbeat, and run to her in tears with open arms.


You do understand this is Arya we're talking about, right?

#10 idler

idler

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 314 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

5. Actually, between two sisters, Sansa is the one resembling more to Ned than Arya.

Seven hells! I knew Littlefinger has a crush for Ned! /love.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':love:' />

#11 IRON BANK

IRON BANK

    Words true as Gold

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,588 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:20 AM

In some instances I do feel you are right the girls will have some issues to work out. However most IMHO are small and will be able to be resolved. Sansa paid for her avoidance of the truth with the death of her Dire wolf while yet Arya's wolf is still alive. So in my opinion that is a small issue. Sansa approaching Cersie about Ned planning to leave KL. That one issue their might be a problem. Sansa in her defense was very naive back then stiil know excuse. At this juncture I believe the girls will be happy to just be united. I think that Arya's Dire wolf is symbolic in the fact that just like Nymeria, ARYA will meet each individual Stark and gather her own pack.

#12 Lady cut throat

Lady cut throat

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:27 AM

I agree, i think at this point for either to see each other, they will just be damned relieved to see another member of their family. This could be supported in some of Sansa's thoughts concernign jon Snow (who I always thought had her mothers attitude towards him, just being the bastard half brother) and even she starts to think how lovely it would be to see him again because the rest of her family is dead (or so she thinks).

#13 IRON BANK

IRON BANK

    Words true as Gold

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,588 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:34 AM

I agree, i think at this point for either to see each other, they will just be damned relieved to see another member of their family. This could be supported in some of Sansa's thoughts concernign jon Snow (who I always thought had her mothers attitude towards him, just being the bastard half brother) and even she starts to think how lovely it would be to see him again because the rest of her family is dead (or so she thinks).


Exactly: Sansa and Arya seem to be mature, and have become experienced in each their own way to what is happening around them in the world. If they were Lannisters or Greyjoys I could see the fallout. However there family ties seemed to be quite close. Also each is set on revenge which is a great motivator.

#14 Adara

Adara

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

Welcome to the forums the Others vs. Westeros /cheers.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cheers:' />

You may find this one interesting: http://asoiaf.wester...thinking +sansa
A collection of essays, mostly about Sansa, but also the sister relationships.
Warning - I spent hours there yesterday /lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

#15 The Weirwoods Eyes

The Weirwoods Eyes

    Must think of something Witty to say here.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:51 AM

I don't wish to get involved in the never ending how culpable is Sansa in X Y or Z event.

But I do wish to point out that Arya & Sansa's relationship is no different to any other set of siblings in this world or in Martins.
Sisters tease each other, they fight, they blame each other, this is a part of growing up. We test the boundries with our siblings because it is a safe relationship. We use the secure dynamic we have within our family unit to learn about the world and human relationships.
Sansa & Arya were not in anyway damaged as sisters, they did not hate one another and I see no reason what so ever to assume that they would not embrace each other with love when they do reunite.
Yes they have a few "issues" to iron out. Mainly Lady and the Micah incident. But I don't buy the idea that one may kill the other at all.
Jeez did non of you have a sibling who drove you crazy as kids? Did you never fight or call each other names? That is all that was being portrayed in AGOT when the two were interacting.

Also why would anyone think one child had a stronger bond, or was closer to Ned than the other? As a parent you love each child individually, you don't love any of them more than an other. Ned loved both girls for who they were. Arya looking more Stark like and having some personality traits in common with his sister would not have made him and her closer by any means. Sansa is a much a Stark as any of them don't be fooled by the Auburn Hair and Blue eyes. That girl has northern grit running through her veins.

#16 Ashlesha

Ashlesha

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:17 AM

I am 100% sure this wouldnt happen. Arya-Sansa relationship is pretty normal for any sisters. In fact Arya has confessed that she did not really hate Sana, and Sansa remembers Arya in her moments of solitude.

Arya-Sansa relationship is not dysfunctional such as say Tyrion/Cersei relationship. I am pretty sure when time comes the girls will help each other out.

#17 Iona

Iona

    the Hedging Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,582 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

I can't help myself, but I started thinking about Arya's hit list. Wonder what kind of sisterly disagreement they would have if it turned out that Arya "iced" the Hound before they meet again. Even without the SanSan vibes, Sansa might be pretty annoyed by that.

Of course, Arya had her chance but didn't take it. Given that she now knows that the Hound did actually protect her sister, I guess Sandor is off the list.

#18 Daphnaerys Seaworth

Daphnaerys Seaworth

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

It is only natural for siblings to fight all the time when they are little.
Plus, I don't think the Starks have it inside them to kinslay.
Arya would never hurt Sansa, at least knowingly.

#19 Le Cygne

Le Cygne

    The Swan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,925 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:17 AM

TOvW- Welcome to the forums! I actually think that Sansa and Arya had a normal relationship in the beginning of ASOIAF given their ages and personalities. Given time they would have grown to be kind to each other regardless of what happened, but now considering everything they lost they will forgive and forget quite easily. Sansa and Arya have grown tremendously since they last saw each other; that combined with what they've been through will cause them to forgive each other for what happened in King's Landing. Besides if anything Arya might like Sansa more if she thought she killed Joffery.


Agree, I think they'll be very happy to see each other. They'll always have differences because they're very different people. After all they've been through, I don't think either will hold the other up to a standard of perfection that they know does not exist.

Also why would anyone think one child had a stronger bond, or was closer to Ned than the other? As a parent you love each child individually, you don't love any of them more than an other. Ned loved both girls for who they were. Arya looking more Stark like and having some personality traits in common with his sister would not have made him and her closer by any means. Sansa is a much a Stark as any of them don't be fooled by the Auburn Hair and Blue eyes. That girl has northern grit running through her veins.


Agree with everything, but this, too. When there's love the parent loves seeing the resemblance of the wife or husband in the child. Or they have the same characteristics of someone else they love, like Arya reminded Ned of Lyanna. There's no set of rules here.

I can't help myself, but I started thinking about Arya's hit list. Wonder what kind of sisterly disagreement they would have if it turned out that Arya "iced" the Hound before they meet again. Even without the SanSan vibes, Sansa might be pretty annoyed by that.

Of course, Arya had her chance but didn't take it. Given that she now knows that the Hound did actually protect her sister, I guess Sandor is off the list.


Exactly, I think I think if Arya had killed him that would be rift worthy, but I think Arya didn't kill him partly because of his connection to Sansa, partly because he had become "Sandor" to her, too (not the Hound).

Edited by Le Cygne, 26 September 2013 - 08:18 AM.


#20 juanml82

juanml82

    Waiting for the Skagosi Unicorn Cavalry

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,591 posts

Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:30 AM

I don't wish to get involved in the never ending how culpable is Sansa in X Y or Z event.

But I do wish to point out that Arya & Sansa's relationship is no different to any other set of siblings in this world or in Martins.
Sisters tease each other, they fight, they blame each other, this is a part of growing up. We test the boundries with our siblings because it is a safe relationship. We use the secure dynamic we have within our family unit to learn about the world and human relationships.
Sansa & Arya were not in anyway damaged as sisters, they did not hate one another and I see no reason what so ever to assume that they would not embrace each other with love when they do reunite.
Yes they have a few "issues" to iron out. Mainly Lady and the Micah incident. But I don't buy the idea that one may kill the other at all.
Jeez did non of you have a sibling who drove you crazy as kids? Did you never fight or call each other names? That is all that was being portrayed in AGOT when the two were interacting.

Also why would anyone think one child had a stronger bond, or was closer to Ned than the other? As a parent you love each child individually, you don't love any of them more than an other. Ned loved both girls for who they were. Arya looking more Stark like and having some personality traits in common with his sister would not have made him and her closer by any means. Sansa is a much a Stark as any of them don't be fooled by the Auburn Hair and Blue eyes. That girl has northern grit running through her veins.

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

If they meet, I don't think the chapter would start with both girls running at each other for a sisterly hug. There have things they have to work out and, of course, their meeting might happen at a rather conflicting point.
I don't think Arya would ever hear about Sansa going to Cersei in KL, or at least not through Sansa. But I seriously doubt Arya would kill Sansa.