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Who will the Faith Support?


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#1 Dead Wolf

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

Now that they have the Swords and Stars, they could play a very important role in the second Dance of the Dragons. The Faith fought against the earliest Targaryens and was brutally stripped of power by Maegor and Jaehaerys, and I'm guessing bad blood still lingers. However, the Fatih has no love for the Lannisters or Tyrells. Who will they support?

#2 The Mountain That Flies

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:49 PM

(F)Aegon. He's been heavily taught the practices of the Seven by Lemore, represents a return to old stability, and has currently the only able-minded and loyal political handler in JonCon.

#3 Not Dead Just Broken

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:59 PM

The High Sparrow seems to be interested in building his power base to help the smallfolk. Whether the altruism is genuine is unclear. I'm not sure how they feel about the Tyrells. Arresting Margaery was a good political move to ensure that the Lannisters didn't try to take Cersei back by force. However, they let her go pretty quickly when the Tyrell host arrived at KL. There's a certain amount of pragmatism to the High Sparrow's actions. He's very politically adept as his election and subsequent negotiations and actions show. I don't see him supporting (f)Aegon while the Tyrells and Lannisters control the city. I could see the High Sparrow trying to negotiate a truce between Tommen and Aegon. Perhaps, the High Sparrow offers to be Tommen's regent in exchange for Aegon holding his forces in the Stormlands.

A lot of the faith's power relies on getting a conviction in one of the two trials. Given the golden crowns/golden shrouds prophecy and the sheer strength of unGregor, I tend to think Cersei wins her trial by combat. I think convicting Margaery of something during her trial by faith is key to the Faith maintaining power. This might be where Tyene Sand comes into play.

#4 The Sullen Sellsword

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:02 PM

Aegon, no doubt about that.

#5 The Mountain That Flies

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:08 PM

I don't see him supporting (f)Aegon while the Tyrells and Lannisters control the city. I could see the High Sparrow trying to negotiate a truce between Tommen and Aegon. Perhaps, the High Sparrow offers to be Tommen's regent in exchange for Aegon holding his forces in the Stormlands.


Who says they'll be controlling the city for much longer? With Kevan dead and Cersei still pseudo-imprisoned, the Lannister power base is broken. The Tyrell's are strong, but Mace could ditch Tommen when the far better candidate for king shows up. Margery has already black widowed two husbands, no reason she couldn't do so again (assuming she gets off the hook).

#6 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

Yep, I think the Faith are in the same boat as most. Just going with whoever has the best army.

Edited by DaarioKnowsBest, 26 September 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#7 Fire Eater

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:49 PM

Following up on the Rains of Castamere theme recently:


In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,


This has always reminded me of "Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon". So, assuming that Aegon is a Blackfyre, this might foreshadow his and the Blackfyre's ultimate destruction by Dany, just like Tywin did with the other "lions", who thought that their claws are just as long and sharp...


Also, according to Cersei, the Lannisters, unlike the Reynes, kept the last lions of the westerlands, the sigil of both houses. Dany possesses the last dragons, the sigil of both Houses Targaryen and Blackfyre. If we go further with the parallel, House Tarbeck's sigil was a seven-pointed star, so this could foreshadow the Faith fighting Dany as well.

The Faith will side with Aegon.

After that came a savory snake stew, chunks of seven different sorts of snake slow-simmered in dragon peppers and blood oranges and a dash of venom to give it good bite.

All Dornishmen were snakes, and the Martells were the worst of them.

I think we will see seven members of the Martell family die in the series, with the snakes described as simmered in dragon peppers to hint at the reasons for their demise. Quentyn is already dead. When a weak Doran hears about what happened Quentyn, it will kill him. Arianne will perish in the second Dance of Dragons.

Half of the Sand Snakes will accompany Arianne to the grave. Oberyn's daughters Obara, Tyene and Nymeria are on the list of those who will die in the Dance of Dragon 2. Tyene is currently disguised as a septa at Baelor's Sept, so I can imagine her dying in the second Dance of Dragons in the Faith sides with Aegon.

#8 chrisdaw

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:28 PM

They will support Aegon, Varys will ensure it. Aegon will enter KL as a hero. Dany's army will be of foreign heretics, as much as the HS dislikes the current regime he wouldn't consider Stannis for king on religious grounds.

The real question is who will the Faith support when Aegon dies and Cersei's children die or are revealed for abominations.

#9 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:45 PM

I don't think anybody needs the Faith that much.
If any army invades KL and wins, the HS will have to play ball and do as they say, he doesn't have the firepower to talk smack to the conquerer who just won the throne. It's easy to go off about Stannis being a heretic while he's wandering through a blizzard up north, to his face after he just invaded is another thing completely.
Sure, the smallfolk love them some religion but it's been proven before that a king can dispose of them quick enough.

Edited by DaarioKnowsBest, 26 September 2013 - 11:46 PM.


#10 chrisdaw

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:01 AM

The Faith has the common people and are only going to grow stronger before the Dance, if someone wants to sit the throne they'll either have to placate the HS or subjugate the populace not just in KL but the rest of the realm.

#11 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

I think it's the other way around, the HS will have to roll with whatever the new administration says.
I don't think the commonfolk will riot just because the Faith says so, especially if a gigantic war has just died down and there's a chance for a little peace.


#12 The Sullen Sellsword

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:20 AM

I think it's the other way around, the HS will have to roll with whatever the new administration says.
I don't think the commonfolk will riot just because the Faith says so, especially if a gigantic war has just died down and there's a chance for a little peace.


The Faith is the only institution looking out for the smallfolk at the moment, they will go with whatever the Faith asks of them.

Whoever has the support of the Faith has the popular support.

#13 chrisdaw

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:25 AM

The new HS is a fanatic, he glories in routinely tearing the skin from his own back as it brings him closer to the Seven, he won't just roll with a new heretical administration. He was installed by the violent will of the Faith's followers and the old orders are being restored by volunteers, from peasants to lords.

#14 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:56 AM

The HS has a LONG way to go before he is strong enough to defy a conquerer.
I think its ridiculous at this point to think he and whatever smallfolk willing to throw in with his cause will matter.

Mace Tyrell is showing right now that the Faith better play ball with him or it's going to get ugly.

Uglier that is.

Edited by DaarioKnowsBest, 27 September 2013 - 01:01 AM.


#15 Victarion Chainbreaker

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:04 AM

Doesn't anyone think the High Septon will try to grab power for himself and turn the Seven Kingdoms into a theocracy? His actions could be in hopes of revealing the twincest and leaving Westeros without a legitimate ruler (Stannis is a heretic) and making himself the ruler. Why else would he create an army?

Edited by Victarion the Awesome, 27 September 2013 - 01:09 AM.


#16 DaarioKnowsBest

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:16 AM

His army needs a whole lot of work to compete with any of the others.

#17 Jukka Sorasti

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:27 AM

The High Septon is an interesting combination of fanaticism and pragmatism. Two things that don't ordinarily go together, which is why I find it interesting. While my knee jerk reaction is to dislike the High Septon, I have to admit that I find the Faith somewhat interesting. Unlike all the other religions, it doesn't seem to have any basis in a supernatural force we know to be real. But it does have the support of the common people, and the High Septon seems to be actively trying to help the common people, which in turn, increases his power base. He's quite shrewd, and not above political manipulation, but in the end, whatever he does will be for the good of the Faith.

So, the only two candidates he can support at the moment are Tommen and Aegon, as they are the only two who follow the Faith. I don't think Tommen is his ideal choice for king (because of Cersei), but if it looks like Tommen is going to win, I think he'll let his pragmatic side win out and support him. But, if I'm sure of anything it's that poor Tommen will not be reaching the end of this series alive. Varys will make sure of it if someone else doesn't. And the Lannister-Tyrell alliance doesn't seem long for this world either. Of course, Cersei has given the High Septon everything he could ever ask for, so he has no real reason to support Aegon. But Connington seems clever enough to offer the High Septon the same or better deal to switch sides, and supporting the underdog in this war could give him the opportunity for more power (for the Faith) if he supports Aegon early and Aegon wins. But, for the moment the Lannisters and Tyrells control the city, so I wouldn't be surprised if he employed "Dornish" tactics, and delays making an official decision.

Of course, this guess doesn't include Littlefinger, which is always a mistake in trying to analyse Westerosi politics. It wouldn't totally shock me if the High Septon sided with Sansa (and Littlefinger).

Gun to my head, I see Aegon taking Storm's End, beating the Tyrells and the Lannisters in the field (maybe), and threatening Kingslanding. At which point Tommen dies (Varys), the High Septon takes control of the city, and asks Sansa for help (after she's retaken the North), she comes south (if I'm lucky, killing the last Freys on her way down), enters Kingslanding at the invitation of the High Septon, kills Aegon, and takes the Iron Throne while Littlefinger says "Exactly as I planned!". And then Sansa kills Littlefinger.

And then Dany and the Others finally show up.

I'm probably wrong, but it'd be funny if I turned out to be right.

#18 joluoto

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:10 AM

Varys would try to manipulate them to back Aegon. That much is sure.

#19 Great Dayne

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

When Varys explains to Kevan about Aegon, he states that Aegon was taught that ruling was his duty and not his right. To put his people first. If this is true and Aegon is true to the Seven as he has been instructed then the sparrows will flock to him. The High Septon will have no choice but to support him.

#20 The Silver Otter

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:38 AM

The HS has a LONG way to go before he is strong enough to defy a conquerer.
I think its ridiculous at this point to think he and whatever smallfolk willing to throw in with his cause will matter.



(f)Aegon isn't much of a conqueror though. He has 10,000 men with the Golden Company and whatever else he may gain by way of supporters rallying to his cause. Aegon the Conqueror had three dragons, and made the High Septon way back when retreat into prayer for seven days before he was accepted.

If (f)Aegon can prove to be a champion of the smallfolk he may get the support of the Faith but the Sparrow is not an idiot. The Sparrow may not be carving out an empire but he's got enough brains and bite to make sure his interests are looked after.