Who will the Faith Support?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Huh? Rhaegar and Elia weren't related.

But he is a grand child of incest, his grandparents were brother and sister.

[falcotron]

To me this is just saying they wait until whoever conquers KL, then make deals with that person.

Whoever has the best army, that's who they will support.

So they will stay with Tommen until somebody proves strong enough to take him off the throne.

No, that's not _at all_ what I was saying. If Aegon and JonConn say they're going to de-militarize the Faith and take away their new-found judicial power, the HS is not going to wait for them to win and then support them, he's going to oppose them.

Of course he _also_ won't support someone with no chance of winning, because he's not completely stupid. But that's not the only thing he cares about, or even the first thing.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

No, that's not _at all_ what I was saying. If Aegon and JonConn say they're going to de-militarize the Faith and take away their new-found judicial power, the HS is not going to wait for them to win and then support them, he's going to oppose them.

Of course he _also_ won't support someone with no chance of winning, because he's not completely stupid. But that's not the only thing he cares about, or even the first thing.

It was response to saying they are going to support Aegon, of course they won't support JonCon/Aegon him if they say they are going to get rid of him.

But say Stannis was to invade and win and still allow the Faith to exist while planting his red god flags around the city, I don't think he could afford to keep calling Stannis a heretic and fight him.

Especially if Stannis brings food and some stability.

Extreme people and ideologies can take over when people are desperate.

It's much more difficult when people are living like how they are accustomed to living

[falcotron]

It was response to saying they are going to support Aegon

Then you quoted and responded to the wrong post, because I didn't say anywhere that they were going to support Aegon. In fact, the whole point of my post is that they _wouldn't_ support Aegon unless they got what they wanted from him.

But say Stannis was to invade and win and still allow the Faith to exist while planting his red god flags around the city, I don't think he could afford to keep calling Stannis a heretic and fight him.

Sure. If they oppose him and lose, what choices do they have? The traditional options are to bend the knee to him, go underground, or be destroyed. Since going underground is hard for a centralized religious organization whose headquarters are down the street from the King, the first option seems like the only realistic one.

And, by the same token, if Aegon were to refuse their demands, but then it became clear that he was going to crush the Tyrell/Lannister/"Baratheon" forces, they might have to deal with him anyway.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Then you quoted and responded to the wrong post, because I didn't say anywhere that they were going to support Aegon. In fact, the whole point of my post is that they _wouldn't_ support Aegon unless they got what they wanted from him.

Sure. If they oppose him and lose, what choices do they have? The traditional options are to bend the knee to him, go underground, or be destroyed. Since going underground is hard for a centralized religious organization whose headquarters are down the street from the King, the first option seems like the only realistic one.

And, by the same token, if Aegon were to refuse their demands, but then it became clear that he was going to crush the Tyrell/Lannister/"Baratheon" forces, they might have to deal with him anyway.

Then we are in agreement, the Faith will deal with whoever has the best army and can take the throne.

All the "they are heretics and abominations" talk is just showboating BS.

[falcotron]

Then we are in agreement, the Faith will deal with whoever has the best army and can take the throne.

Are you willfully misunderstanding me? That's exactly the opposite of what I said.

Why do you think the Faith wanted to be re-armed? So they can have some say in who wins, rather than sitting passively on their thumbs and hoping it's someone they like.

Yes, it's possible their chosen horse will lose anyway, and they'll have to make a deal they don't want to. That's always a risk for any faction participating in a power struggle. But that doesn't mean they won't participate.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Are you willfully misunderstanding me? That's exactly the opposite of what I said.

Why do you think the Faith wanted to be re-armed? So they can have some say in who wins, rather than sitting passively on their thumbs and hoping it's someone they like.

Yes, it's possible their chosen horse will lose anyway, and they'll have to make a deal they don't want to. That's always a risk for any faction participating in a power struggle. But that doesn't mean they won't participate.

No I'm misunderstanding you because you are not clear in what you are saying, are you willfully giving a mixed message.

You are saying the opposite of they will side with whoever has enough power to take over KL.

What exactly would the opposite of that be?

To me the opposite of that is maintain the position they already have, which is siding with Tommen.

Which means they wont side or make deals with anybody else, they will side with Tommen until they are wiped out or they get their way.

What other way am I to take "the opposite of that" as.

Yes they wanted to be arms so they can have influence, but I'm saying they are nowhere close to being able to defy any of the existing armies, so they will make a deal with whatever administration is in control.

[falcotron]

No I'm misunderstanding you because you are not clear in what you are saying, are you willfully giving a mixed message.

You are saying the opposite of they will side with whoever has enough power to take over KL.

What exactly would the opposite of that be?

They have power of their own, and they will use that power to pick the side they want to win, and deal with that side.

Yes, they might lose, and yes, they're not stupid enough to pick a side that has no chance even with their help. But they're not completely helpless, and they know it. That's the part you keep missing. They see themselves as players in the struggle, not victims of it.

To me the opposite of that is maintain the position they already have, which is siding with Tommen.

Which means they wont side or make deals with anybody else, they will side with Tommen until they are wiped out or they get their way.

If they think Tommen can win with their aid, they easily could stick with him. If they think he has no chance, they'll look for someone else, like Aegon, and see what kind of deal they get in exchange for supporting him. But they're not going to pick Aegon just because he looks like the most likely victor—unless Aegon gives them the same concessions as Tommen. And they certainly aren't going to pick Stannis unless his victory is inescapable.

Yes they wanted to be arms so they can have influence, but I'm saying they are nowhere close to being able to defy any of the existing armies

On their own, no.

But they can definitely aid an army by adding the Warrior's Sons to his sworn banners, and using the Poor Fellows for a combination of guerrilla warfare and defending the undefended on their side.

And they can rally the common people and many nobles to their chosen side, which will influence who has the bigger army in the first place.

And, most of all, only they can deliver the blessings of the Warrior—which probably means nothing in reality, but do you really think the HS believes for one moment that the Warrior has no power over warfare?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Then we are in agreement, the Faith will deal with whoever has the best army and can take the throne.

All the "they are heretics and abominations" talk is just showboating BS.

I dont think so, considering Cersei and Marge are being punished for adultery, then the HS takes the religious parts seriously

[Batman]

Huh? Rhaegar and Elia weren't related.

They weren't, but beyond them there is almost nothing but incest in his bloodline. Also he and Connington are planning for him to wed his aunt. Aside from his mum, he is walking incest.

[Batman]

But he is a grand child of incest, his grandparents were brother and sister.

This one knows

[The Mother of The Others]

well if all their options are incestuous, then that cancels out. they'd just back the one who isn't Cersei.

The other thing I'm always hoping for is if the Faith picks Aegon but then the people abandon the Faith.

R'hllor is set to become deeply relevant when it produces more results against the threats to humanity.

So Aegon is popular for a bit, then not, then Daenerys shows up with a fire priest and drakes and the new faith sweeps the land.

Which would actually turn Stannnis back into a player again.....

[chrisdaw]

The line of incest matters nothing.

The HS cares only for power to an end, he has sought his own power because the throne has become a cess pit of debauchery and failed in it's duty to the small folk. The HS is a servant of the Seven, he does their will on Westeros, he is not playing politics.

If Aegon would protect the smallfolk and Faith, bring peace to the realm and rule in the name of the Seven the HS would give up his arms. Aegon will not ask him to do this though, he will require the Faith to fight alongside him, against Dany, which the Faith will do.

The HS has not crowned Tommen by Varys's design, and Varys will have his way in this until Aegon arrives.

But Aegon will then die, and then who do not only the Faith's forces but Aegon's forces then give fealty? Very possibly whoever the HS decides.