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Great Northern Conspiracy Problem


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51 replies to this topic

#1 NomadicDirewolf

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:21 PM

if the northern lords are planning on drawing jon south to make him there king in place of stannis, why is wyman manderly trying to retrieve rickon? the only explanation that i can remember so far is that they plan to make Rickon Lord of Winterfell and Jon KitN, which to me isnt very convincing as a king needs a seat of power, and a castle from which to rule, and bannermen of his own, and jon would have none of those. 



#2 Mladen

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:34 PM

That is a problem? Targaryens had seat but almost no bannermen. Of all the regions in Westeros, Crownlands could have gathered the least amount of soldiers. It is said that Crownlands only have some lesser Houses... Rickon is nbeing retrieved because of a simple fact he is alive, son of ex-liege lord and their Prince... Also, what do you think, whom will all those wildlings follow? I honestly see no problem here...



#3 The Titan's Legitimate Son

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:37 PM

Also, what is wrong with simply having a back-up plan - and a King needs an heir.



#4 C0bR

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:38 PM

Every Stark is precious these days.



#5 Hear me Meow

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:38 PM

Yea, I tend to agree. The most obvious explanation is that Jon is not part of any Stark restoration plan because he swore to wear no crowns. So he's a no go especially now he's LC. If Pyke or Mallister had won they might have been prevailed onto release him for the 100 men but it can hardly be expected Jon would accept the offer when he's actually LC himself.

#6 Ghost's Shadow

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:40 PM

Clear out The Dreadfort, et voilà. ;)



#7 rodrik Cassel

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:47 PM

AS far AS i know they will only fallow thormunds memb.....

#8 rodrik Cassel

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:50 PM

Every Stark is precious these days.


Every stark is sacred Every stark is good every stark is needed in your neighborhood

#9 SkaggCannibal

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

There are lots of problems with the GNC, but yes that's a pretty big one. The Targaryens had as their seats the biggest city of Westeros + the Crownlands, it's pretty significant. Jon, or any King, would need a seat of his own.



#10 falcotron

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:15 AM

If the King in the North isn't a Stark, he doesn't have to rule from Winterfell.

 

If he's King of just the North, it's going to be a lot more important to defend the Kingsroad with a hostile kingdom to the south, so maybe they'll rebuild Moat Cailin as the seat.

 

If he's King of the North, Riverlands, and Vale, a more central location might make more sense, like the Twins.



#11 jenerationx

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:25 AM

Doesn't the GNC address this? I'm not a GNC expert but I'm pretty sure it maintains that Manderly is using double talk/semantics to get what he wants. He doesn't specifically ask for Rickon; he asks for his liege lord to be brought to him. If Davos or whoever makes the assumption that that's Rickon, Manderly's not bound by his words because he never mentions Rickon himself. Something like that.



#12 Jon's Queen Consort

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:22 AM

I really can't see where is the problem, in fact I can't see a problem with GNC at all.

 

That is a problem? Targaryens had seat but almost no bannermen. Of all the regions in Westeros, Crownlands could have gathered the least amount of soldiers. It is said that Crownlands only have some lesser Houses... Rickon is nbeing retrieved because of a simple fact he is alive, son of ex-liege lord and their Prince... Also, what do you think, whom will all those wildlings follow? I honestly see no problem here...

:agree:  The wildlings are now South of the Wall and what? They will just go North of the Wall once the war is over? No way. So, you need someone who the wildlings will follow. Who is gonna be? Rickon?  :lmao: No, it's gonna be the one who saved them in the first place. So, Jon it is.



#13 Northern Nomad

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

Well if the theory is true, then the northern lords are planning to kill Ramsey and Roose, which would leave The Dreadfort empty, which would mean Rickon could get the Bolton lands.  

 

Nevermind got  :ninja: by Ghost's Shadow.


Edited by Northern Nomad, 29 September 2013 - 05:02 AM.


#14 Rickeen Baratheon

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:05 AM

KiTN, perhaps. But, Rickon will be like the old Kings of Winter! Jon Snow wouldn't sacrifice his vows I don't think, he didn't even to go get Arya. The only time he was retaliating against Ramsay was -not- breaking his vows, but was replying to a threat.



#15 Red.Queen

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:33 AM

Doesn't the GNC address this? I'm not a GNC expert but I'm pretty sure it maintains that Manderly is using double talk/semantics to get what he wants. He doesn't specifically ask for Rickon; he asks for his liege lord to be brought to him. If Davos or whoever makes the assumption that that's Rickon, Manderly's not bound by his words because he never mentions Rickon himself. Something like that.

:agree: Precisely. Actually, Rickon is no one's liege lord, whether you believe in the GNC or not. If you think that the northern lords are respecting Robb's will, then it's Jon, if you think they're not going with the will, then it's Bran. It's not Rickon either way.



#16 KingofSothoryos

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:39 AM

I believe this is a hole in the GNC theory, but it is not one that means it's not true, just that we need more information which can only come from our God of Creation, GRRM!

I still argue that Jon comes after Bran and Rickon (Sansa and Arya too) in the line of succession as a legitimized bastard, so I may see this as more of a problem than someone who thinks Jon supersedes his younger true born half siblings.

Edited by KingofSothoryos, 29 September 2013 - 05:42 AM.


#17 joluoto

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:17 AM

The Great Northern Conspiracy fail where it's trying to tie Jon to the mess. It's plausible as long as it's about finding Rickon and making him either Lord of Winterfel or King of the North.

 

And Jon being a bastard is not the problem. The problem with the theory is that the Northern Lords still has a huge respect for the Night's Watch and the vows taken by the black brothers. They wouldn't support a Lord Commander or any other member of the Watch to break his vows.



#18 Ghost's Shadow

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:27 AM

The Northern Lords have a huge respect for the NW? When was that? When the Watch begged for help, when even Mormont was still alive? Yes, the response was HUGE there!

 

And I think we've enough with reading how one boy king likes putting the seals on the letters most of all, no need to repeat it with another useless boy king. Boy kings are puppets. The North needs better than a puppet. If you've not noticed yet, the next long night is there. The only thing Rickon is capable of is crawling closer to Osha when he's shivering from the cold.



#19 joluoto

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:28 AM

The Northern Lords have a huge respect for the NW? When was that? When the Watch begged for help, when even Mormont was still alive? Yes, the response was HUGE there!

 

And I think we've enough with reading how one boy king likes putting the seals on the letters most of all, no need to repeat it with another useless boy king. Boy kings are puppets. The North needs better than a puppet. If you've not noticed yet, the next long night is there. The only thing Rickon is capable of is crawling closer to Osha when he's shivering from the cold.

Jon Snow is also a boy. And if they want Jon, why the hell does Manderly give one shit about Rickon. It's not even clear they want a king. It might actually be they just want a Stark in Winterfel, and that they will make the decision whether he is a king or a Lord later.


Edited by joluoto, 29 September 2013 - 06:30 AM.


#20 Ghost's Shadow

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:46 AM

I'm going to suggest you re-read the thread because I think your answers are in there, and you must have missed it.