George W. Lannister Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Agreed, very fresh look at things. The Shavepate analysis is fantastic...especially considering where he is/ what he's doing in the Barristan gift chapters!!! This opens up a (what I hope to be) very fiery conclusion of the Battle of Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The essay isn't loading up for me for some reason, but I will admit I came here for Stannis. Depending on how much time I have at the house tonight, I might give it another try there (better Internet there than at work). EDIT: Shaveplate being the poisoner was interesting and fairly convincing. However, I would suggest he might have been trying Hizdahr more than Dany. I don't think the killings stopping points to Dany's success. More like the Ghiscari thought they could corrupt easier than fighting her. One their own is co-ruler. Pits have been reopened. If I recall, this was around the time Dany allowed people to sell themselves in slavery. I'm not saying they would have succeeded. I'm just guessing that was the plan. The Yunkish peace was probably more straight up. After all, they got to go back to their normal. She still succeeded in bringing peace to Meereen, regardless of whether she was being manipulated. Dany only allowed people to sell themselves into slavery if they wished to leave Meereen. The city itself - as part of the peace deal - was allowed to remain free from slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The third part of the essay is up now: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 The third part of the essay is up now: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/ These essays are amazing, and make me rethink Dany's arc, I can see now how much time Martin spent working on the Meereen arc to build Dany's character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I know - the essays are very well written and have enhance my thoughts about that story line. The author of the essay does think that Dany is headed to a darker path (I’ve read some of his other stuff), perhaps an antagonist or villain. Although I won’t deny that Dany is headed on a darker path I’m not so sure it can be easily labeled as that of an antagonist. Westerns is full of antagonist and villains, if fact the “bad guys” have been getting away literally with murder. There are so few “heroes” that have been able to score any points against them. It’s kind of ridiculous how far some of the villains are in this giant game of chest (think Varys and Littlefinger). I think what Dany might become is a “hero” who isn’t afraid to get her hands dirty and isn’t afraid to do what will need to be done. Sometime good people must do bad things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I know - the essay are very well written and have enhance my thoughts about that story line. The author of the essay does think that Dany is headed to a darker path (I’ve read some of his other stuff), perhaps an antagonist or villain. Although I won’t deny that Dany is headed on a darker path I’m not so sure it can be easily labeled as that of an antagonist. Westerns is full of antagonist and villains, if fact the “bad guys” have been getting away literally with murder. There are so few “heroes” that have been able to score any points against them. It’s kind of ridiculous how far some of the villains are in this giant game of chest (think Varys and Littlefinger). I think what Dany might become is a “hero” who isn’t afraid to get her hands dirty and isn’t afraid to do what will need to be done. Sometime good people must do bad things... Yes thats what I have always thought aswell that she is headed towards becoming an antihero like Stannis rather than an outright villain like Roose or Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Stannis and dany is a match made in heaven. You guys want ice and fire? Well, you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Stannis and dany is a match made in heaven. You guys want ice and fire? Well, you got it. I 've always said it but people don't believe me :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Another excellent essay. It certainly helps to whet my appetite for TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yea I'm also hyped to see where her arc goes, soo many possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yes thats what I have always thought aswell that she is headed towards becoming an antihero like Stannis rather than an outright villain like Roose or Ramsay. GRRM does refer to Stannis as a "righteous man" perhaps that's where Dany is headed... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 GRRM does refer to Stannis as a "righteous man" perhaps that's where Dany is headed... ;) Her thoughts in her last chapter in ADWD don't bode terribly well, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Her thoughts in her last chapter in ADWD don't bode terribly well, IMHO. I think that in the last chapter she realized that she compromise too much. In order to please the noble class she gave in to regressing some of the changes she had made. She shouldn’t have allowed people to sell themselves into slavery that goes against what she was fighting for and more importantly it undermined her abolitionist movement. Duty over Love is one of the themes of the story, and although she chose duty it is my belief she choose duty to the wrong people. I think that by the end of ADWD she is in danger of going to much the other way “fire and blood”, but perhaps with the addition of a cooler mind (Tyrion) she can focus her righteous belief, balance out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Staenerys...what happens to Selsye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Her thoughts in her last chapter in ADWD don't bode terribly well, IMHO. Well, what are her thoughts in her last chapter? As far as I can tell, she basically decides to stop sacrificing her principles. Dany had the upperhand in Meereen when she was still in control of her dragons, so why did she compromise so much? If Dany had forced the Meereenese to end the insurgency through fire and blood, she could have defeated the Yunkai'i and saved Astapor before events spiralled out of control. I don't think the message of the last chapter was "burn everything, war is better than peace". Rather I think the message was to use her strengths to achieve the best that she can. Dany has always cared about justice. "Justice... that's what kings are for" she tells Jorah. Of course at this point her idea of justice was overlapping with vengeance. Has she learned the difference from her time in Meereen? Would Dany at the end of ADwD still crucify 163 slavers? I think we'll know the answer to this question as soon as we find out what she does with Mago and Jhaqo. The fact that GRRM described Mago as a "recurring character" gives me hope that Dany has learned to use what's available to her to make long-term changes rather than being consumed by short-sighted vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Well, what are her thoughts in her last chapter? As far as I can tell, she basically decides to stop sacrificing her principles. Dany had the upperhand in Meereen when she was still in control of her dragons, so why did she compromise so much? If Dany had forced the Meereenese to end the insurgency through fire and blood, she could have defeated the Yunkai'i and saved Astapor before events spiralled out of control. I don't think the message of the last chapter was "burn everything, war is better than peace". Rather I think the message was to use her strengths to achieve the best that she can. Dany has always cared about justice. "Justice... that's what kings are for" she tells Jorah. Of course at this point her idea of justice was overlapping with vengeance. Has she learned the difference from her time in Meereen? Would Dany at the end of ADwD still crucify 163 slavers? I think we'll know the answer to this question as soon as we find out what she does with Mago and Jhaqo. The fact that GRRM described Mago as a "recurring character" gives me hope that Dany has learned to use what's available to her to make long-term changes rather than being consumed by short-sighted vengeance. Thank you for saying it much better than I could say it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well, what are her thoughts in her last chapter? As far as I can tell, she basically decides to stop sacrificing her principles. Dany had the upperhand in Meereen when she was still in control of her dragons, so why did she compromise so much? If Dany had forced the Meereenese to end the insurgency through fire and blood, she could have defeated the Yunkai'i and saved Astapor before events spiralled out of control. I don't think the message of the last chapter was "burn everything, war is better than peace". Rather I think the message was to use her strengths to achieve the best that she can. Dany has always cared about justice. "Justice... that's what kings are for" she tells Jorah. Of course at this point her idea of justice was overlapping with vengeance. Has she learned the difference from her time in Meereen? Would Dany at the end of ADwD still crucify 163 slavers? I think we'll know the answer to this question as soon as we find out what she does with Mago and Jhaqo. The fact that GRRM described Mago as a "recurring character" gives me hope that Dany has learned to use what's available to her to make long-term changes rather than being consumed by short-sighted vengeance. Thats a fair assessment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ive said it in another thread, but these essays are going to change my mind about Meereen when I get to it on a re-read again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ive said it in another thread, but these essays are going to change my mind about Meereen when I get to it on a re-read again. I've always thought the Mereen chapters were pretty fascinating tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Daario representing Dany's temptation toward war/violence makes a lot of sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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