On the authorship of the Pink Letter

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The dogs are for hunting the women down. We all know that. And we really don't know what happened to Squirrel, Holly.

Yes, and part of the hunting ritual is that he flays the women before feeding their corpses to his dogs.

My idea is no more speculation than your idea of Asha. Hence liberal use of the word MIGHT. You asked me for possible motives for Ramsay and I gave them to you.

[Ser Greg of House House]

I agree that saying Ramsay doesn't flay women is a stretch. Why would that be? Some code of his? He could just have this crazy idea about the cloak and do it...

But the Asha theory is a nice addition to the possibilities. Not that it's more likely than more obvious options, but it could be. We don't have a motive, sure, but she's a captive and I don't think it's like her to just stand by. She'll do something.

[Roadside Rose]

Yes, and part of the hunting ritual is that he flays the women before feeding their corpses to his dogs.

My idea is no more speculation than your idea of Asha. Hence liberal use of the word MIGHT. You asked me for possible motives for Ramsay and I gave them to you.

Where does it say that?

That is not what Theon tells Mance, and I think Theon knows Ramsay better than anyone.

“Ramsay will use your women as his prey,” he told the singer. “He’ll hunt them down, rape them, and feed their corpses to his dogs. If

they lead him a good chase, he may name his next litter of bitches after them. You he’ll flay. Him and

Skinner and Damon Dance-for-Me, they will make a game of it. You’ll be begging them to kill you.”

And I'm honestly done going around the same point over and over again.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Where does it say that?

That is not what Theon tells Mance, and I think Theon knows Ramsay better than anyone.

And I'm honestly done going around the same point over and over again.

Manderly tells Davos. Manderly was involved in the Lady Hornwood incident, seeing as she was his sister. Given Ramsay's predilections and what Manderly would have uncovered when trying to fight the Bolton marriage, I don't see any good reason to doubt what he says about Ramsay's habits, especially since the info seems to come directly from girls who managed to escape the hunt. From time to time, "some wench escapes and lives to tell the tale." The girls who survive have information about what happens to the ones who don't survive.

Theon isn't lying. "You he'll flay" just means that Mance would be summarily flayed without the hunt. The flaying isn't the key point of focus here, it's the hunt. Women get hunted and then flayed, whereas men just get flayed. The hunt is the differential, and that's why when Theon explains what will happen, it's between hunted and flayed.

I'm sorry I blew a hole in your Asha-contradiction theory, but maybe get over it and move on.

[Ran]

Here's the simple reason why Ramsay wrote it:

Jon Snow has seen Ramsay's handwriting. He knows what it looks like.

Jon gets another letter from the same person. If the handwriting was totally different, he'd have twigged. I mean, Ramsay's handwriting is described by Jon that first time -- the letters are "huge" and "spiky". Pretty distinctive. Stannis and Mance wouldn't know it. Theon might, but he's not exactly in position (nor do we even know he has the skill) to forge a letter.

So, it's Ramsay. Simple enough.

[Ramsay B.]

The King o' the Board speaks...and we listen.

[Shebara]

In my opinion, Ramsay wrote it with the information he has at hand.. He tortured the Spearwives for the true identity of Mance, their mission, and Melisandre´s deception at the wall whilst burning Rattelshirt.

Stannis defeats the Frey host at the frozen lake with the help Wyman. Stannis sends Manderly back to Winterfell with the magical sword (and a couple of heads) to tell Bolton they have defeated the rebel in 7 days of battle (they were 3 days away from winterfell, 3+1+3=7)

So Stannis prepares Massy for the eventual news of his death, ordering him to carry on with his mission. Stannis knows Massy would hear about his death at the wall, but wants him to get the sellswords all the same.

Ramsay is the one writing the letter (as lord of winterfell), because Roose might have fallen into the trap, leaving the safety of winterfell, back for the dreadfort.

The letter is still a riddle for me but I think this explanation sounds the most logical one to me. Stannis as the author seems far-fetched for me, Stannis is not as cunning as that, he is always thinking in a very straight-forward way, he seems not capable of strategical and cunning considerings...I think the idea of this plan could well come from Manderley, he seems much more capable of that.

It would be a splendid idea to trick Ramsay into writing the letter as he needs and wants his wife back desperately - for his claim and for cruel revenge.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Here's the simple reason why Ramsay wrote it:

Jon Snow has seen Ramsay's handwriting. He knows what it looks like.

Jon gets another letter from the same person. If the handwriting was totally different, he'd have twigged. I mean, Ramsay's handwriting is described by Jon that first time -- the letters are "huge" and "spiky". Pretty distinctive. Stannis and Mance wouldn't know it. Theon might, but he's not exactly in position (nor do we even know he has the skill) to forge a letter.

So, it's Ramsay. Simple enough.

Hah, I knew at one time that there was a very good reason I thought it was Ramsay -- besides the obvious point that it's signed by him and written in his voice -- and I think the handwriting is actually it. It's the same handwriting both times we unambiguously see a Ramsay-written letter, a "huge, spiky hand." While the handwriting isn't specified in the Pink Letter, I think it's fair to assume that Jon would recognize such a distinctive script or the lack of it.

So I'm going back to my first-page theory about what happens: Ramsay gets (intentionally) bad intel and uses that as a basis for writing the letter. Another clue he's jumping the gun: I think Ramsay, if he actually had Stannis, would have included some sort of trophy, a bit of flayed skin. That such a token is missing from the letter might be a clue that Ramsay is writing it empty-handed.

[Little Balerion]

Jon gets another letter from the same person. If the handwriting was totally different, he'd have twigged. I mean, Ramsay's handwriting is described by Jon that first time -- the letters are "huge" and "spiky". Pretty distinctive. Stannis and Mance wouldn't know it. Theon might, but he's not exactly in position (nor do we even know he has the skill) to forge a letter.

Which chapter does Jon get Ramsay's letter (i meant the other letter - not the Pink Letter) with the spiky and huge handwriting? I think I may have missed it while reading.

[alienarea]

Here's the simple reason why Ramsay wrote it:

Jon Snow has seen Ramsay's handwriting. He knows what it looks like.

Jon gets another letter from the same person. If the handwriting was totally different, he'd have twigged. I mean, Ramsay's handwriting is described by Jon that first time -- the letters are "huge" and "spiky". Pretty distinctive. Stannis and Mance wouldn't know it. Theon might, but he's not exactly in position (nor do we even know he has the skill) to forge a letter.

So, it's Ramsay. Simple enough.

With a lot of people (like for example Mance) not writing letters on a regular basis, wouldn't their letters have a huge, spiky writing as well?

And Jon, not being pen pals with the other suspects, would he notice or even question once the letter is signed Ramsay?

I speculate that someone who has seen a letter by Ramsay could fake it without Jon detecting it. This is not CSI.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Which chapter does Jon get Ramsay's letter (i meant the other letter - not the Pink Letter) with the spiky and huge handwriting? I think I may have missed it while reading.

It's the chapter when he finds out that Ramsay is marrying Arya. It ends with Melisandre offering to save her.

ETA: At the end of the day, I don't think the question is really, "Who wrote the Pink Letter?" so much as it's, "How much of it is actually true?"

[Squire Dalbridge]

One (small) point I haven't seen mentioned before:

On both of the two previous instances where Ramsay has written a letter, it is stated that it was written with "huge, spiky handwriting". (Sorry, I don't have the actual pages to provide).

In case of the Pink letter there's none of that. I know it doesn't proof anything, but it's still curious that it was mentioned twice, but not here anymore.

Edit: Hmm... I did not read the newest posts, sorry...

But still, the huge, spiky handwriting is mentioned also by Asha (IIRC), with another letter. So I see this more as a negative, not positive proof.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

One (small) point I haven't seen mentioned before:

On both of the two previous instances where Ramsay has written a letter, it is stated that it was written with "huge, spiky handwriting". (Sorry, I don't have the actual pages to provide).

In case of the Pink letter there's none of that. I know it doesn't proof anything, but it's still curious that it was mentioned twice, but not here anymore.

But I think Ran's point is that even if it's not mentioned, Jon would notice if the Pink Letter was in a different script from the previous letter.

[Ramsay B.]

So I'm going back to my first-page theory about what happens: Ramsay gets (intentionally) bad intel and uses that as a basis for writing the letter. Another clue he's jumping the gun: I think Ramsay, if he actually had Stannis, would have included some sort of trophy, a bit of flayed skin. That such a token is missing from the letter might be a clue that Ramsay is writing it empty-handed.

Yes. I think it's as simple as that. I've read all the theories and this, easily, makes the most sense. I think we're all just overthinking this letter. The clues from the sample chapter are there and GRRM used the spiky description of Ramsay's penmanship for a reason.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Yes. I think it's as simple as that. I've read all the theories and this, easily, makes the most sense. I think we're all just overthinking this letter. The clues from the sample chapter are there and GRRM used the spiky description of Ramsay's penmanship for a reason.

Yeah, I think it's definitely one of those things that has suffered with so much lag time to think of it. Like I said in my edit above, the operative question isn't the authorship of the letter, but the veracity of what it says.

[Little Balerion]

With a lot of people (like for example Mance) not writing letters on a regular basis, wouldn't their letters have a huge, spiky writing as well?

And Jon, not being pen pals with the other suspects, would he notice or even question once the letter is signed Ramsay?

I speculate that someone who has seen a letter by Ramsay could fake it without Jon detecting it. This is not CSI.

True that. Besides, Jon gets so many letters. I think I'll just wait for windsofwinter for the answers

[Squire Dalbridge]

But I think Ran's point is that even if it's not mentioned, Jon would notice if the Pink Letter was in a different script from the previous letter.

When I think about the content of the letter, it's not so strange if Jon doesn't give any thought for the handwriting.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

True that. Besides, Jon gets so many letters. I think I'll just wait for windsofwinter for the answers

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that letters saying Ramsay Snow is going to marry your sister and that Ramsay Snow has Stannis's head on a spike at Winterfell are going to get closer scrutiny on Jon's part than your garden-variety correspondence.

When I think about the content of the letter, it's not so strange ig Jon doesn't give any thought for the handwriting.

And why would he give it a thought? It's a letter signed by Ramsay; the only reason he'd give the handwriting a thought is if it didn't match the first letter he'd gotten.

[Ramsay B.]

Yeah, I think it's definitely one of those things that has suffered with so much lag time to think of it. Like I said in my edit above, the operative question isn't the authorship of the letter, but the veracity of what it says.

Hopefully Ramsay doesn't have the Mance. I can't see Mance being outsmarted by Ramsay but things look grim.

[Squire Dalbridge]

And why would he give it a thought? It's a letter signed by Ramsay; the only reason he'd give the handwriting a thought is if it didn't match the first letter he'd gotten.

Bad choice of words, by my part. I meant NOTICING the different handwriting. With the feelings he's got when reading it, is it strange if it goes unnoticed? He isn't a robot, is he?