Scott Lynch’s The Republic of Thieves.. SPOILERS

[Howdyphillip]

 

At the same time we can also acknowledge that all his estimates on this book have been wrong so far.

It's always later, and later. There have been some pretty strong statements guaranteeing a 2014 release for Thorn, I'm a bit baffled it isn't coming out, even though I really shouldn't be.

I completely understand. Feeling frustrated with delays in publication is perfectly understandable to me. I personally feel that people have taken Gaimen's "Not your Bitch" essay in directions even Gaimen didn't intend. There is certainly room for feelings of frustration without a sense of entitlement.

[Calibandar]

We're in agreement on that as well.

The whole statement by Gaiman was never to my liking because it so greatly exaggerates what people were asking for.

And of course he would support his fellow author and not see the reader's POV.

But because it was Gaiman his comment gained a lot of traction.

[Howdyphillip]

We're in agreement on that as well.

The whole statement by Gaiman was never to my liking because it so greatly exaggerates what people were asking for.

And of course he would support his fellow author and not see the reader's POV.

But because it was Gaiman his comment gained a lot of traction.

Taken in context, I think that Gaimen's remarks were fairly spot on. He was replying to someone that was complaining that Martin was spending time writing on his blog rather than writing his book. For a reader to think that it is an author's duty to do nothing but write his series until it is complete shows a level of audacity and entitlement that is worthy of being mocked. To be completely honest, I was one of those readers that had unreasonable expectations. 

 

Having said that, I also find it completely unreasonable that an author should ask fans to have no emotions at all when it comes to very long wait times between books that are adored. We as readers can very well know that there is no obligation that a writer has to his readers and still feel saddened by not being able to finish a story that we love.  

[mormont]

Nobody's ever asked (and certainly Gaiman never asked) that readers experience no emotions, no frustrations, at delays in anticipated books coming out. What Gaiman was criticising was the expression of those emotions as entitlement, demanding things rather than anticipating them.

[C.T. Phipps]

Nobody's ever asked (and certainly Gaiman never asked) that readers experience no emotions, no frustrations, at delays in anticipated books coming out. What Gaiman was criticising was the expression of those emotions as entitlement, demanding things rather than anticipating them.

 

I think part of the issue was something I've shared with other readers that art is, well, art. It's not something that has a set period of time to finish. George R.R. Martin has taken almost two decades to write this series because that's how long it's taken. Inspiration and desire to do so isn't a set process. Likewise, as much as I love the books, it's good to remember that there's plenty of other deserving authors out there who would love some love from Martin's fanbase in the meantime.

 

It's just amusing, in a darkly comedic way, because for some people, that includes Lynch.

:)

[The Marquis de Leech]

I've never had a problem with delays. I can always find other books to read.

 

My problem is much more about quality. Quality, rather than delay, is what you will remember in the years to come (and both Martin and Lynch have their issues in the last couple of books).

[Howdyphillip]

Nobody's ever asked (and certainly Gaiman never asked) that readers experience no emotions, no frustrations, at delays in anticipated books coming out. What Gaiman was criticising was the expression of those emotions as entitlement, demanding things rather than anticipating them.

I agree with the assessment that Gaiman wasn't asking readers to never be frustrated. People have been very critical to others that have shown frustration though. Again, I think it is a fine line because some people expressing frustration as entitlement probably do need to be set in place.

 

There have been periods that if I were to come to the board and type out a response saying I was disappointed that Scott Lynch's book didn't come out this summer, I would have been greeted with a chorus of "Scott Lynch is not your bitch".  The truth is, I don't want to attempt to make Mr. Lynch my bitch. I wish him nothing but the best in his personal and professional life, and when all things are said and done, I want him to take as much time as he needs to create whatever he wants to create. These two things are not mutually exclusive. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

CT,

 
I think part of the issue was something I've shared with other readers that art is, well, art. It's not something that has a set period of time to finish. George R.R. Martin has taken almost two decades to write this series because that's how long it's taken. Inspiration and desire to do so isn't a set process. Likewise, as much as I love the books, it's good to remember that there's plenty of other deserving authors out there who would love some love from Martin's fanbase in the meantime.
 
It's just amusing, in a darkly comedic way, because for some people, that includes Lynch.

:)

Indeed, they take as long as they take and I will be delighted when they arrive.

[Calibandar]

I agree with the assessment that Gaiman wasn't asking readers to never be frustrated. People have been very critical to others that have shown frustration though.
 
There have been periods that if I were to come to the board and type out a response saying I was disappointed that Scott Lynch's book didn't come out this summer, I would have been greeted with a chorus of "Scott Lynch is not your bitch".

If you're looking for any sympathy from Mormont on this, I can assure you that you're in for a rude disappointment :)

My problem is much more about quality. Quality, rather than delay, is what you will remember in the years to come (and both Martin and Lynch have their issues in the last couple of books).

I don't think that's true though. Many people still remember the extremely long wait and problems that Martin endured while waiting for Feast, and then even longer for Dance. Ten years from now people will certainly also remember the long wait for Winds of Winter, there's no question about that. Maybe when everything's done and dusted and those who were around at the time of writing are gone, maybe then only the quality will be remembered.

[Rhom]

I think the wait would be forgiven to a certain extent had the quality of said books held up to their predecessors. However, following a long wait with a subpar entry is guaranteed to elicit even harsher reactions.

[mormont]

Let's stick to the thread topic, please. That would not include debating the quality of the last two books of an unrelated series not actually written by Scott Lynch... particularly as we have whole other parts of the forum devoted to discussing those particular books. ;)

[C.T. Phipps]

I confess, I'm not too happy about the return of a certain character at the end of REPUBLIC OF THIEVES.

 

I was hoping we'd be able to move on.

Also, bluntly, the mages are the most smug pompous pieces of crap I've read about in fiction.

 

Seeing them ride off into the sunset really ticks me off.

 

Then again, that's a common problem I've had with the past two books.

I really-really hate the people who make off like bandits when they're not Locke and company.

[Howdyphillip]

Well, I personally believe that the wait time for Republic of Thieves certainly had an effect on its reception. It is consistently talked about as the worst in the series.

 

I have a completely different perspective, as I had just discovered The Gentleman's Bastard series when Lynch published his third book. I literally put the second book down, and only had to wait a few hours before the release of the third novel. I personally believe that it is his best work. It certainly is my favorite of the series. I can understand that the consensus is Lies of Locke Lamora is considered as the best in the series, but the way RoT dealt with relationships, coupled with the over all theme of theatre and politics made this my most engrossing read.

 

I personally believe that the length of time between publishing caused a souring towards the book. 

[kuenjato]

 

 

I personally believe that the length of time between publishing caused a souring towards the book. 

 

No, it's poorly paced and some of us (quite a few) didn't particularly care for the veer into shitty romance theatrics. But the series was wearing thin by the middle-to-end of the second book for me as it was, so...

[The Marquis de Leech]

Well, I personally believe that the wait time for Republic of Thieves certainly had an effect on its reception. It is consistently talked about as the worst in the series.

 

Again, I base my opinion on the content, not the wait. Republic of Thieves has a dull plot (call that election-rigging?), and was structurally two divergent books in one. That's even ignoring the subjective and possibly deliberate things like Locke having a very unhealthy view of romance.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Double post. 

[Howdyphillip]

 

No, it's poorly paced and some of us (quite a few) didn't particularly care for the veer into shitty romance theatrics. But the series was wearing thin by the middle-to-end of the second book for me as it was, so...

 

I came out of the reading experience with quite a different take than this. I thought that the story was told in a cinematic way that allowed me to visualize what was transpiring with ease. The pacing was perfect for me.

 

Again, I base my opinion on the content, not the wait. Republic of Thieves has a dull plot (call that election-rigging?), and was structurally two divergent books in one. That's even ignoring the subjective and possibly deliberate things like Locke having a very unhealthy view of romance.

 If there is a critique I have in this book, it would be the actual play itself in the flash backs, and I would have liked to have seen more elaborate election schemes.

 

Having said that, The flash backs are absolutely essential to the narrative as this book is about establishing what you are referring to as a very unhealthy view of romance that Locke has, and the dynamics of the relationship between Locke and Sabetha. It is a very unhealthy view of romance, and I completely understand it. I have walked in those shoes in my personal life. 

 

I don't think Lynch is trying to show us how to be involved in a good relationships in this book. He is showing us what happens when a crazy world view goes wrong. 

[C.T. Phipps]

I loved the election rigging section of the book.

The play?

Not so much.

 

I also am not a big fan of "The true love of your life!" plots.

So Sabetha had a lot to overcome.

[Rhom]

I loved the election rigging section of the book.
The play?

Not so much.
 
I also am not a big fan of "The true love of your life!" plots.
So Sabetha had a lot to overcome.

Funny... I liked the play portion of the book better than the modern day part of it. Therein might be the problem, the book couldn't decide if it was a prequel or a sequel and suffered a bit for it.

I was only disappointed that they didn't go full on Weekend At Bernie's at the end. :lol:

[Lies And Perfidy]

 

That's even ignoring the subjective and possibly deliberate things like Locke having a very unhealthy view of romance.

I definitely read that as deliberate. Locke is not a dude who is good at building human relationships.