Scott Lynch’s The Republic of Thieves.. SPOILERS

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Good lord. People have been correcting my grammar and spelling for over a decade, I do it once and the sky is falling.

[Ser Greguh]

Ser Greguh...

They can't be 25 in the present storyline, can they? That seems way too young. I got the image of them as maybe around 30-35... 25 seems way too young for A, Jean to be the massive and unstoppable force he is, and B, them to be old enough to be able to pull off half the respectable roles they need to.

Straight from the horse's mouth, Lynch provided an annotated set of a few of the chapters from Red Seas Under Red Skies on his website that answers the question directly.

I also wanted to establish, with this scene, roughly how old the pair of them are. Locke is only vaguely aware of his real age, but Jean is more certain of his- the chronology they offer here would make them 27-28 at the end of RSURS, 25-26 during its initial flashbacks, and about 24 for the early events of TLOLL.

While we tend to think of the late 20s as an extension of childhood, more or less, in the developed countries of the 21st century, I wanted to imply that Locke and Jean would consider that a very ripe and melancholy old age for a pair of thieves. It's certainly a ripe old age for the poor folks toiling in the fields to keep Locke and Jean fed.

[Snowborn]

Oh, I thought Jean was older than Locke.

Just finished RoT, I liked it better than Lies and Seas. I loved both storylines, the one in the present and the one from the flashbacks. I really do wish The Thorn of Emberlain is released next year <3.

[Altherion]

This is why I think there is some truth to Patience's story. Locke and Sabetha's reaction is quite telling. Not only Locke seems to think this quite plausible so does Sabetha. We do not know what/where she was before she came to Shades' Hill. All we know that she was "protected". So she may be the reincarnation of the dead wife of the archedon Lamor Acanthus or just dreading that she is.

Obviously Patience did tell the story to manipulate them. Sabetha does have some mixed feeling about Locke. To her loving Locke means surrender in some respect. But still to run away like that.... :dunno: Also not sure whether the woman in the painting just had red hair or did she look like Sabetha. Patience did mention "the likeness is impeccable". But she could be referring to the fact that the painting shows an accurate resemblance to Acanthus and his wife rather than the woman looks just like Sabetha.

After rereading it, I have an idea that makes Sabetha's acceptance of the painting more plausible: what if instead of recognizing the woman on the painting, she actually recognizes the man? He means nothing to Locke beyond the fact that Locke looks completely different, but Sabetha is older than Locke and may have some childhood memories of Acanthus. It's still not impossible to fake (Sabetha is her real name so I suppose Patience could just mind control her and get her to describe the earliest adult man that she remembers), but it's much more convincing than if only the woman looked like her.

What did you guys think of Patience's little prophecy? "Three things must you take up and three things must you loose before you die: a key, a crown, a child. You will die when a silver rain falls". I hope the silver has nothing to do with the Falconer with silver hands/tongue.

I am assuming that the key, crown and child are either the plot points from the next three books or from the next book (probably the former). I'm not sure what the silver rain is about; dreamsilver is a possibility, but I would guess it is something we haven't heard of yet. We'll certainly see Locke's death (probably in the last book), although I'm not entirely sure that this means his days are numbered -- the greatest tricksters have ways of weaseling out of such things...

[Migey]

@Snowborn

Jean is older then Locke...

[The hairy bear]

Just finished it. Great read.

I agree that, while the theater part was really fun to read, perhaps it was too long. It had no real suspensus, and it detracted from the main storyline. I have also missed more elaborate cons, and perhaps more insight into Karthani politics.

I'm convinced that Sabetha is Acanthus/Locke's daughter, and she fled because she recognized his father in the portrait. The other options presented are not convincing: She already knew that Acanthus wife was a redhead (Patience told that during the dinner). If Acanthus had managed to transfer her to another body, she wouldn't look like her former self. And even if she somehow was Acanthus previous lover, that wouldn't be a real reason to flee.

Sabetha being Locke's daughter would also explain why Patience would interrupt their embrace during the dinner (she wouldn't oppose her former mentor reunite with her long time lost lover).

[Guinevere Seaworth]

Finished it last night. I found it very entertaining, and glad to be back in the world of the Gentleman Bastards. I did like the theater parts (past) more than the present Karthani parts. Like hairy bear said, I missed the elaborate cons and the Karthani politics felt skipped over.

I admit not being thrilled that the Falconer is back alive and kicking, and the reveal of Locke's potential heritage.

After (re-)reading the series, I've come to realize that Father Chains is one of my favorite characters and yet we know so little about him. And how did he die!?!?

[unJon]

Oh I like the Sabetha as daughter theory. Could work out timeline wise I think if Acanthus took his baby girl to Camorr with him. Sabetha must not have known him by that name though given her reaction to learning Locke'd "true name."

Also I think Chains maybe not dead and pops up in a later book.

[ljkeane]

Oh I like the Sabetha as daughter theory. Could work out timeline wise I think if Acanthus took his baby girl to Camorr with him. Sabetha must not have known him by that name though given her reaction to learning Locke'd "true name."

I'm not sure. While that might explain Sabetha's reaction Locke and Jean certainly don't know what Sabetha's father looks like so presumably they'd express some confusion about being shown a painting of two people they don't recognise.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Chains is clearly the "Gandalf/Dumbledore" analog of this series.

I also like the Sabetha is daughter of Lamor Acanthus theory. It explains why she was originally "protected".

[MinDonner]

I like the Sabetha's Parents theory also, but I never saw Chains's death as a mystery; he's just an old dude that probably just died naturally. I would have expected to see a lot more bitterness and vengeance-plotting among the crew if someone else had actually killed him.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

I'm 150+ in and thoroughly enjoying it thus far. I forgot just how much I enjoy Lynch's style of writing. I've found all three to be serious page-turners.

[unJon]

I'm not sure. While that might explain Sabetha's reaction Locke and Jean certainly don't know what Sabetha's father looks like so presumably they'd express some confusion about being shown a painting of two people they don't recognise.

isn't that exactly what happened? Locke an jean saw a pic of two people they don't recognize except one is a red head.

[ljkeane]

Well it's not exactly clear but he says 'of course' which would seem to indicate he's seeing a bit more than simply that the woman has the same colour hair as Sabetha. I don't know, perhaps they do think that's enough to convince Sabetha Patience is telling the truth but it seems a bit thin. :dunno:

[Isis]

I found the whole love story unsatisfying on many levels. In this book it ends in the same position that it starts. It's like Take This Waltz but with far worse acting by the leads.

[Migey]

I also like that theory of Sabetha's parents. It would also explain the redhead in the picture: her mother. That could be the likeness referred to, in that its obvious that she is Sabetha's mother. Maybe instead of recognising Lamor, she recognised her mother?

[The hairy bear]

One think I forgot to include regarding the "Locke is Sabetha's father" theory is the fact that Patience prophesized that Locke would lose a child. If the theory is right, we already have that child: Sabetha seems destined to a tragic fate.

I also like that theory of Sabetha's parents. It would also explain the redhead in the picture: her mother. That could be the likeness referred to, in that its obvious that she is Sabetha's mother. Maybe instead of recognising Lamor, she recognised her mother?

Well, her father died some time after her mother, so it seems more likely that if she has memories of anyone it would be her father.

I never saw Chains's death as a mystery; he's just an old dude that probably just died naturally. I would have expected to see a lot more bitterness and vengeance-plotting among the crew if someone else had actually killed him.

Agreed. If my calculations are correct, Chains was 67 when he died (he's 53 the year he "adopts" Locke).

[The hairy bear]

As for the small hints that Scott revealed about the upcoming bocks, we could update our theories now:

Book IV: The Thorn of Emberlain

A kingdom torn by civil war.

A breakaway republic, outnumbered on all fronts.

Two thieves caught between avarice and admiration.

Things change forever.

Book V: The Ministry of Necessity

The burden of authority and the illusion of respectability.

A dangerous bid to reach old allies.

A shadow war against even older enemies.

Book VI: The Mage and the Master Spy

Further exercises in desperate improvisation.

War and other matters of the heart.

Someone makes a mistake for neither the first nor the last time.

Book VII: Inherit the Night

The fate of nations decided.

Success repaid with betrayal.

In the end, none of us can outrun our past.

It's clear that the next book will center on the newborn Republic of Emberlain trying to maintain its independence. I don't expect we'll see Sabetha in that one. The "things change forever", as some predict, could refer to Jean's death.

After reading TROT, I think that the "shadow war against even older enemies" of Book V could refer to the "enemy" that erased the Elders and that the magi are hiding from. The magi could be those "old allies" of sort. If this is right, then Patience's visions would have some sort of continuity.

After this, I'm lost. Any ideas?

[beniowa]

I found the whole love story unsatisfying on many levels. In this book it ends in the same position that it starts. It's like Take This Waltz but with far worse acting by the leads.

I felt the same way. As a rival, Sabetha is great. But as a love interest she's just annoying and Locke is total idiot around her, even after so many years. One would think he gain some maturity over time. Perhaps the mystery surrounding his past explains this, but right now it's just odd and confusing.

One problem I have with the parent/daughter theory is that if Sabetha really is Locke's daughter, would he really feel such strong romantic interest in her? Maybe as a child, he just didn't understand the nature of his feelings, thought it was romantic love, and that's carried over through the years. But the theory is kind of creepy if it's true.

[Maltaran]

After this, I'm lost. Any ideas?

I would guess that the mage and the master spy might be Falconer and Locke.