Why didn't Robert kick Jaime from the Kingsguard?

[Deets]

Or rather, why didn't Tywin take the best chance he had to get his heir back?

-Jaime had just committed an unforgivable act for a member of the Kingsguard by killing Aerys.

-Tywin was in the city and had just given his loyalty to Robert

-If Tywin had asked Robert to kick Jaime out on the grounds of having killed the king, what grounds would Robert have had to refuse? He was not yet married to Cercei, so she had no power.

-The only ones with power at the time were Robert, Jon, Eddard, and Tywin. Eddard and Tywin would have both been strongly in favor of Jaime's removal from the Kingsguard and Robert and Jon had no reason to want to keep him in.

Tywin always wanted Jaime back as his heir and his behavior throughout the series showed that he had no qualms about making decisions for his children against their will, and carrying out those decisions. Jaime himself might not have been able to argue with getting the boot after killing the king.

So why didn't Tywin ask Robert to kick Jaime out of the Kingsguard?

[Mad Monkey]

I've always had this (mostly unjustified) impression of Arryn as a real stickler for the rules. Since he is the real ruler of the Westeros, I think he would have been troubled by the fact that there was no precedent for forcing a KG out of office against his will without putting him to death or sending him to the Wall.

[Tywin Manderly]

Robert was very forgiving.

[Ser Greg of House House]

It's not that simple. Jaime is already despised as it is, if he lost his white cloak he would be even worst. How can a disgraced man like that rule The Rock?

Anyway, Tywin's plan was to keep the IT close, so he could discharge Jaime later on more honorable grounds. As it turns out, Jaime can be discharged now because he's maimed. I'm sure if he wasn't, it wouldn't be that hard to come up with an excuse.

[Lord of Handle]

I've often wondered this myself. I'm tempted to say plot.

Robert could have kicked Jaime from the KG as punishment for breaking his vow, and pardoned him for saving the realm from a mad tyrant. It would be win-win for everyone but Cersei and Jaime.

edit: spelling

[Agamemnon]

I've always had this (mostly unjustified) impression of Arryn as a real stickler for the rules. Since he is the real ruler of the Westeros, I think he would have been troubled by the fact that there was no precedent for forcing a KG out of office against his will without putting him to death or sending him to the Wall.

Yea but there was also no precedent for killing the king you were sworn to protect. I think Tywin wanted Jaime to stay on so he would have a hand close to the king, you know, in case a kingslaying 2.0 was necessary.

Tywin only wanted Jaime out AFTER Bob was dead.

[maarsen]

There was no precedent for leaving the KG, until Joffrey booted Ser Barristan for being too old. As the LC, Jaime is pretty secure until Cersei meets her 'little brother'.

[Nikolay]

There was no precedent for retiring a KG member until Ser Barristan was retired by the Lannisters. He also was useful for Robert in the same way he was useful for Aerys II: as a hostage. With Jaime as a de facto hostage on Robert's side, Tywin wouldn't ever have dared to get all uppity. Moreover, the Baratheon-Lannister alliance at that point was very fragile. Robert's primary pillars of support, the Starks, Arryns, and Tullys, were on very bad terms with the Lannisters, it wouldn't have been wise for Robert to make anymore concessions to the Lannisters and alienate his allies, especially after he had made a Lannister the Queen.

Tywin simply wasn't in a position to push for more concessions from Robert. He had already soured his relations with the Baratheons because he didn't commit to their cause until after the Battle of the Trident, when the war was already won. The sack of King's Landing was penance for that. The best he could get out of the situation afterwards was to convince Robert to marry his daughter and use that as a bargaining chip years in the future to get Jaime back, or get Jaime back immediately and hide in Casterly Rock until Robert dies of old age.

And yeah, being booted from the KG would have disgraced Jaime even further.

[Deets]

I was under the impression Tywin never wanted him in the KG in the first place and Aerys let him in to spite Tywin. Tywin quit as Hand because of it, which shows how much it bothered him. In one fell swoop he could have had his daughter queen and his son back as heir, the two things he wanted most that Aerys denied him,

[Lord of Handle]

It's not that simple. Jaime is already despised as it is, if he lost his white cloak he would be even worst. How can a disgraced man like that rule The Rock?

Anyway, Tywin's plan was to keep the IT close, so he could discharge Jaime later on more honorable grounds. As it turns out, Jaime can be discharged now because he's maimed. I'm sure if he wasn't, it wouldn't be that hard to come up with an excuse.

People thinks he's a dangerous, dishonorable man anyway. I don't think the popular opinion of him would be much worse just because he got some sort of (nominal) punishment, and I don't really think Tywin cares that much.

And having Jaime close to the IT is nice, but if I were Tywin, I'd rather want my heir back as soon as possible.

[Lord of Handle]

Sure, there was no precedent, but somebody's got to be the first. Why not the guy who actually killed the king? A lot of institutions were so shaken up around that time anyway; booting someone from the KG would be the least of it.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I always wondered why Ty didn't asked for Jaime's release from his vows.

[Ser Greg of House House]

People thinks he's a dangerous, dishonorable man anyway. I don't think the popular opinion of him would be much worse just because he got some sort of (nominal) punishment, and I don't really think Tywin cares that much.

And having Jaime close to the IT is nice, but if I were Tywin, I'd rather want my heir back as soon as possible.

A Lord has to be respected to a certain extent. His vassals, the smallfolk etc. wouldn't necessarily like to have a soiled kg as their lord.

I believe people are severely underestimating the consequences of admitting he's a kingslayer and oathbreaker. Officially, his actions were justified.

[Gurkhal]

As been mentioned it would have destroyed Jaime's chances of being faced with respect from just about everyone if he was forced from the Kingsguard in addition to killing Aerys. Besides that, Robert seemed to have fancied Jaime at that point and saw no need to punish him for doing something which Robert liked.

And with the Lannisters are part of the alliance which supported Robert it would've made no sense to weak then alliance.

[The Wolves]

Because Robert was dumb who would want a man who killed the previous King to protect the new King.

[Lord of Handle]

There was no precedent for retiring a KG member until Ser Barristan was retired by the Lannisters. He also was useful for Robert in the same way he was useful for Aerys II: as a hostage. With Jaime as a de facto hostage on Robert's side, Tywin wouldn't ever have dared to get all uppity. Moreover, the Baratheon-Lannister alliance at that point was very fragile. Robert's primary pillars of support, the Starks, Arryns, and Tullys, were on very bad terms with the Lannisters, it wouldn't have been wise for Robert to make anymore concessions to the Lannisters and alienate his allies, especially after he had made a Lannister the Queen.

Tywin simply wasn't in a position to push for more concessions from Robert. He had already soured his relations with the Baratheons because he didn't commit to their cause until after the Battle of the Trident, when the war was already won. The sack of King's Landing was penance for that. The best he could get out of the situation afterwards was to convince Robert to marry his daughter and use that as a bargaining chip years in the future to get Jaime back, or get Jaime back immediately and hide in Casterly Rock until Robert dies of old age.

And yeah, being booted from the KG would have disgraced Jaime even further.

I can see that he's useful to Bob as a hostage, and obviously no one could know the terrible influence he and Cersei have on each other, but I'm still confused why Jon Arryn, Ned and Tywin never pushed for his release. From their different perspectives, they should have seen the sense in it.

And when you talk about concessions, isn't it a bit of a concession in itself to marry Tywin's daughter?

ETA:

As been mentioned it would have destroyed Jaime's chances of being faced with respect from just about everyone if he was forced from the Kingsguard in addition to killing Aerys. Besides that, Robert seemed to have fancied Jaime at that point and saw no need to punish him for doing something which Robert liked.

And with the Lannisters are part of the alliance which supported Robert it would've made no sense to weak then alliance.

How would it weaken the alliance? It would be in Tywin's interest.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

It was Jon Arryn who convinced Robert to keep Jaime, and probably as a measure to keep Tywin in check. But I don't think Jons thought process here is ever really explained

[Winter's Knight]

Because his father spilled the blood he didn't dare to. It's the same reason he didn't demand Gregor or Amory's (sp?) heads-he did not disapprove of their actions.

[Lord of Handle]

It was Jon Arryn who convinced Robert to keep Jaime, and probably as a measure to keep Tywin in check. But I don't think Jons thought process here is ever really explained

Can you find the quote?

Sometimes I think that Jon Arryn wasn't a very politically savvy man...

[Consigliere]

Jon Arryn advised Robert to keep Jaime on as KG. Given Robert's blind hatred for the Targs, I don't think he considered what Jaime had done to be that bad. He probably felt that Jaime had done him a favour. As for why Tywin did not demand that Jaime be released is because Tywin was not in a position to demand anything. Since he came late to the cause he had to do everything to show his loyalty as the murders of Aegon, Rhaenys and Elia prove.