GRRM reading from TWOW this weekend @ Capclave

[Manfryd Lothston]

Anyway, given that actual recordings are apparently forbidden, then at least hopefully people will take notes and continue sharing them with the other fans here.

[Jslay427]

Honestly I've read the WoW chapters out many times. I would almost prefer if he didn't release any because then it wouldn't leave me fiending to the extent it does. After I finished aDWD I was like ok, couple years till the next. But with these chapters I finish reading them cursing for more..

[Words of Winter]

Honestly I've read the WoW chapters out many times. I would almost prefer if he didn't release any because then it wouldn't leave me fiending to the extent it does. After I finished aDWD I was like ok, couple years till the next. But with these chapters I finish reading them cursing for more..

This. I like the one he releases each year, but it is really hard to have a chapter instead of a book.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Any news on the chapter he was supposed to read earlier?

[Lord Varys]

The TWoW chapters seem not to be any new ones, but the excerpt from TPatQ is new.

We now know that Rhaenyra's second husband was her uncle, a Daemon Targaryen (her first husband was a Velaryon). She had six sons, and was on Dragonstone when her father died due to another pregnancy (if she gives birth to a seventh son he may turn out to be Viserys II).

Rhaenyra's side controls nine dragons (plus additional three 'wild dragons' - my guess is that they are young dragons which have never been ridden), Aegon's faction has only four. Aegon II is married to his only sister, a Helena (or Haelena/Helaena).

[PatrickStormborn]

I thought the reporter said Aegon's side only had four dragons?

[Lord Varys]

You are right, I corrected that.

Four dragons seem to indicate that of Aegon's faction only Aegon II, his sister-queen H(a)el(a)ena, and his two brothers might have had dragons (that is, if all all of Aegon's siblings fought/remained on his side). That puts them in a rather bad position dragon-wise.

With nine dragons Rhaenyra's faction must have included more than just herself, her husband, and her sons. Even if we assume that all her six sons were already dragonriders (which I doubt - both Aegon III and Viserys II may have been too young at the outbreak of the war) one tame dragon would remain riderless. The three wild dragons seem to young dragons who have never been ridden before.

Thinking about that, it seems that controlling Dragonstone was actually very important back then. We know that the last dragon eggs hatched on Dragonstone, which could indicate that Dragonstone - and not the Dragonpit - was the place were the Targaryen dragons mated and bred. Thus whoever controlled Dragonstone controlled the resupply of dragons for House Targaryen, which actually made the Prince(ss) of Dragonstone a very powerful and important guy...

The Dragonpit may turn out to be merely the place where the dragons were kept once they were in King's Landing. And at least during Viserys's reign many of them apparently were on Dragonstone (just as back during Aegon's and Aenys's reign, when the Targaryens mostly lived on Dragonstone).

[Werthead]

That sucks, and is kind of a weak move IMO. He has no qualms about posting entire preview chapters on his website. And he does read them word-for-word on the cons. He's even read some on television, IIRC. So what fundamental difference does it make if his readings are spread to a wider audience?

Basically, the chapters that GRRM posts on his website and in the back of paperbacks and previous volumes as a preview of the next book are completed, or as close to it as possible. So GRRM has no problem with people seeing them.

The chapters he reads out at cons are works in progress - sometimes very early ones - that he is happy to share with a small crowd of people as a treat for them, but doesn't want to spread them far and wide in case they then massively change by the time the book comes out. The chapters he read out before ADWD was published differed - in some cases massively - from what appeared in the final versions of those chapters in the books, and in some cases caused a bit of confusion.

As a halfway house, we can report on those convention chapters in an anecdotal fashion so no-one can mistake them for an actual preview chapter, but we can't publish either direct audio or transcriptions because people (and Google) will mistake them for actual, final chapters, which can then cause confusion later on.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

The TWoW chapters seem not to be any new ones, but the excerpt from TPatQ is new.

We now know that Rhaenyra's second husband was her uncle, a Daemon Targaryen (her first husband was a Velaryon). She had six sons, and was on Dragonstone when her father died due to another pregnancy (if she gives birth to a seventh son he may turn out to be Viserys II).

Rhaenyra's side controls nine dragons (plus additional three 'wild dragons' - my guess is that they are young dragons which have never been ridden), Aegon's faction has only four. Aegon II is married to his only sister, a Helena (or Haelena/Helaena).

I thought it was pretty clear that Rhaenyra's first husband was Lord Lyonel Strong of Harrenhal, her father's Hand, not a Velaryon.

[Ser Tahu]

Basically, the chapters that GRRM posts on his website and in the back of paperbacks and previous volumes as a preview of the next book are completed, or as close to it as possible. So GRRM has no problem with people seeing them.

The chapters he reads out at cons are works in progress - sometimes very early ones - that he is happy to share with a small crowd of people as a treat for them, but doesn't want to spread them far and wide in case they then massively change by the time the book comes out. The chapters he read out before ADWD was published differed - in some cases massively - from what appeared in the final versions of those chapters in the books, and in some cases caused a bit of confusion.

As a halfway house, we can report on those convention chapters in an anecdotal fashion so no-one can mistake them for an actual preview chapter, but we can't publish either direct audio or transcriptions because people (and Google) will mistake them for actual, final chapters, which can then cause confusion later on.

Just out of curiosity, can you link me to (or list) some of the examples of confusion with early and final versions of ADwD chapters?

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

You are right, I corrected that.

Four dragons seem to indicate that of Aegon's faction only Aegon II, his sister-queen H(a)el(a)ena, and his two brothers might have had dragons (that is, if all all of Aegon's siblings fought/remained on his side). That puts them in a rather bad position dragon-wise.

With nine dragons Rhaenyra's faction must have included more than just herself, her husband, and her sons. Even if we assume that all her six sons were already dragonriders (which I doubt - both Aegon III and Viserys II may have been too young at the outbreak of the war) one tame dragon would remain riderless. The three wild dragons seem to young dragons who have never been ridden before.

Thinking about that, it seems that controlling Dragonstone was actually very important back then. We know that the last dragon eggs hatched on Dragonstone, which could indicate that Dragonstone - and not the Dragonpit - was the place were the Targaryen dragons mated and bred. Thus whoever controlled Dragonstone controlled the resupply of dragons for House Targaryen, which actually made the Prince(ss) of Dragonstone a very powerful and important guy...

The Dragonpit may turn out to be merely the place where the dragons were kept once they were in King's Landing. And at least during Viserys's reign many of them apparently were on Dragonstone (just as back during Aegon's and Aenys's reign, when the Targaryens mostly lived on Dragonstone).

Interesting indeed. The Targaryens had 16 dragons pre- DotD. The civil war killed most of them and the maesters finished the rest.

How on earth did Rhaenyrs lose? Discounting the younglings, she still had a 9 to 4 advantage.

[Werthead]

Just out of curiosity, can you link me to (or list) some of the examples of confusion with early and final versions of ADwD chapters?

A minor one is that he changed the name of the 100-year period of chaos between the Doom and the Targaryen invasion of Westeros from 'Bleeding Years' to 'Century of Blood'.

Janos Slynt's fate changed several times as well. Originally, he didn't die at all in the chapter. Then he was hanged from the top of the Wall. Then in the final book he was killed by beheading. Dany's early chapters also changed a fair bit as well, IIRC.

[Veltigar]

I thought it was pretty clear that Rhaenyra's first husband was Lord Lyonel Strong of Harrenhal, her father's Hand, not a Velaryon.

GRRM changed the identity of her first husband.

How on earth did Rhaenyrs lose? Discounting the younglings, she still had a 6 to 4 advantage.

Maybe Aegon's side controlled the older stronger dragons?

[ColdDrake]

The TWoW chapters seem not to be any new ones, but the excerpt from TPatQ is new.

We now know that Rhaenyra's second husband was her uncle, a Daemon Targaryen (her first husband was a Velaryon). She had six sons, and was on Dragonstone when her father died due to another pregnancy (if she gives birth to a seventh son he may turn out to be Viserys II).

Rhaenyra's side controls nine dragons (plus additional three 'wild dragons' - my guess is that they are young dragons which have never been ridden), Aegon's faction has only four. Aegon II is married to his only sister, a Helena (or Haelena/Helaena).

Where can I read a summary of this TPatQ excerpt?

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

GRRM changed the identity of her first husband.

Maybe Aegon's side controlled the older stronger dragons?

1. Thats quite a change, but he is the author of course and may do as he likes.

2. Possible, but 9 to 4 is still a pretty huge advantage. Thats two dragons for every one of Aegon's. But, if Aegon's dragons were one hundred plus years of age and comparable to the size of the dragons of Aegon I's era, it makes sense.

[Lord Varys]

The reviewer of the full TPatQ indicated that Rhaenyra's sons may have caused her much more trouble than they were worth. If they did some follies and lost their dragons along with their lives things could very easily change. For instance, we know already that two of the sons were sent as Rhaenyra's envoys to Storm's End and the Eyrie.

We can reasonably deduce that the Arryns and the Vale will declare for Rhaenyra considering that her mother was an Arryn. But we already know (from ADwD) that Storm's End will declare for Aegon, so at least one of her sons will fail as an envoy. No idea if he is going to survive this whole thing.

We also know that Aegon's brother Prince Aemond rode Vhagar - most certainly the biggest dragon the Targaryens still have - during the Dance. My guess is that he will turn out to be the dragon of Viserys I, and Aemond will only bind with him at the beginning of the Dance. Vhagar could have given Aegon II an advantage. But even she was killed in the end. And although it seems that Rhaenyra's side seems to start this whole dragonseed search, I can also see Aegon's side losing one of their riders early on, so that they, too, have to find another rider.

But this whole thing clearly shows that Rhaenyra's faction is much bigger than Aegon's. At least within House Targaryen itself. It may really turn out that the Dance is in fact a war of the Great Anal houses/Citadel/Faith against House Targaryen, fought under a pretext through the Hightower-Targaryens (Ser Otto, Queen Alicent). This could also explain why and how the war was continued after Rhaenyra's death. Although it seems that all of her elder sons either died before or with her, else there would be another claimant on her side before Aegon III. But especially her husband seems to have survived the whole war, and thus may be crucial in the post-Rhaenyra-Dance.

There are no summaries of the reading yet. Just one answer to a few questions I posted over there in the Capclave thread over in the Brotherhood Without Banners board.

[Baela Targaryen]

Here are the summaries of Barristan's and Tyrion's TWOW chapters GRRM read recently (the chapters are old, but some details are new):

http://grungyhipster.tumblr.com/post/63879566697/tonight-i-saw-george-rr-martin-read-2-chapters-from (this tumblr post isn't mine, I'm merely reposting it)

"

1st Reading - BARRISTAN SELMY

Ser Barristan Selmy leads a calvary charge out of the gates of Mereen riding on the back of Dany’s silver to challenge the Yunkish army surrounding the city. He feels very tense with knots in his stomach but knows it will pass once the fighting starts and the “world slows.” He hopes to destroy the six trebuchets firing plague infested bodies into the city in an attempt to spread disease amongst the population. Barristan is worried about how the battle will go, and acknowledges the fact that he might not survive the day. He holds onto the hope that his queen will return to defend the city soon. As his troops charge Barristan takes note of the sellswords bravely following him into battle, and vows to never doubt their prowess or honor again. Despite taking casualties from the Yunkish arrows and bolts raining down on them, Barristan’s troops manage to charge the camps. The pit fighters of Mereen charge naked and screaming terribly into the Yunkish lines, chained together at the heel preventing any of them from retreating. The Unsullied come streaming out of the gates of Mereen marching six by six and join the fight. Barristan believes they are the only hope for victory in the battle. With the sun rising directly in their faces, the Yunkish sellswords are blinded as Barristan’s men slam right into them, causing the sellsword companies to retreat after sustaining heavy casualties. As the battle rages, Ser Barristan suddenly notices there are thrice as many ships in the harbor than there were the day before. After a closer look, he realizes there is a massive fleet attacking the Yunkish and Qartheen ships. Due to his weak eyesight, Barristan asks one of his men to tell him what sigil this new fleet is flying. The man replies, “Squids!” It only takes him a moment to realize this is a Greyjoy fleet from halfway around the world come to join the fight. He is puzzled for a few moments as he tries to remember who was now the leader of the Greyjoys (was it Balon, or his heir, that ward of Ned Stark’s?) but rejoices when he sees the enemy fleet burning and the iron men landing on the beaches. “We have them!” he shouts.

2nd reading - TYRION

Tyrion Lannister is in a tent amongst the Second Sons in the Yunkish camps when he hears the fighting erupt all around him. He comes out and makes jokes and conversation with some of the Second Sons while they wait for Brown Ben Plumm to return to them with orders. They order Tyrion to return to his tent to prepare for battle. Tyrion laments the fact that although he was not built for battle, the gods keep putting him in the middle of them. Tyrion enters the tent he shared with Penny and she helps him prepare for the battle. As Tyrion suits up in mismatched armor, he remembers the first time he ever prepared for a battle when he fought in his father’s army on the Green Fork. He recalls how Shae shuddered when she heard the warhorns, and admired his mismatched armor, saying he looked fearsome. He thinks of himself as a fool for having ever believed her, wondering if she was always acting while with him. He recalls Podrick Payne being asleep the morning of the Green Fork as well, and although the boy was not the brightest he hopes the lad “found a good man to serve.” Tyrion also recalls the Blackwater and how the one time he made the mistake of removing his helmet to keep from drowning, it cost him his nose. He laments not having any wine before the battle (Penny reminds him he drank it all the night before), remarking “I’d sell my sister for a cup of wine.” to which Penny says, “You’d sell your sister for a cup of horse piss.” Tyrion laughs out loud and says, “I did not know my taste for horse piss was so well known.” During this time Tyrion also recalls Bronn, and wonders if his sister has tried to kill him yet as well. Upon reemerging from the tent, Tyrion can hear the battle raging closer now. Although the closest fighting is a league away, he knows it will be upon them soon. Having been born in Casterly Rock, Tyrion knows what sort of savagery the iron men are capable of as they raided and burned Lannisport several times in the past. He realizes, however, that the Yunkish are completely ignorant of what the iron men are capable of, but they will soon find out. He continues to complain about the fact that they are fighting for “the wrong side.” Rhaegal and Viserion eventually join the battle as well, and begin to swoop down from the sky, scorching the earth with their breath and snatching up burnt men. A messenger from the Yunkish leadership arrives and tells the Second Sons to prepare to join the battle dismounted. Since Brown Ben Plumm is not with them to accept the order, the Second Sons only make jokes at the messenger’s expense until he becomes angry and leaves, promising to tell the leadership of their refusal to fight. Shortly thereafter, Ben Plumm returns and calls a meeting in his tent. Tyrion hopes he can sway the Second Sons to turn their cloaks again in favor of Daenerys. They enter the tent where Tyrion sees they have also been joined by Ser Jorah Mormont. Ben Plumm reveals their orders are to flank the Unsullied from the rear, which causes all the men to exchange nervous glances of uncertainty. Tyrion remarks on how they should turn back in favor of Dany, but before anyone can make a decision another messenger returns with orders from the new Yunkish leadership (several of them have been killed at this point in the battle). The Yunkish messenger is wearing armor with a lewd image depicted on the front which causes Tyrion to feel the man is a “kindred spirit.” The Second Sons joke amongst each other about the constantly changing leadership in the Yunkish army, and continue to avoid taking a side in the fight. The messenger also takes note of the fact that Tyrion is an escaped slave and demands that they turn him over. Ben Plumm only jokes that Tyrion can’t be a slave since he is not wearing a collar. When the messenger demands to know of what their decision is, Ser Jorah replies “This.” and drives his longsword through the back of the man’s neck as he tries to run. When the man falls he knocks over the cyvasse table in the room, and the white dragon piece lands at Tyrion’s feet. He picks it up and wipes the blood from it, and it reminds him of his hopes that the dragon queen will return to them soon because they need her. Brown Ben Plumm then jokes that they only “feigned” turning their cloaks away from Daenerys. Tyrion walks up to the dead Yunkish messenger’s body and gives it a light kick. “If that armor fits me, I want it.” He says."

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

The reviewer of the full TPatQ indicated that Rhaenyra's sons may have caused her much more trouble than they were worth. If they did some follies and lost their dragons along with their lives things could very easily change. For instance, we know already that two of the sons were sent as Rhaenyra's envoys to Storm's End and the Eyrie.

We can reasonably deduce that the Arryns and the Vale will declare for Rhaenyra considering that her mother was an Arryn. But we already know (from ADwD) that Storm's End will declare for Aegon, so at least one of her sons will fail as an envoy. No idea if he is going to survive this whole thing.

We also know that Aegon's brother Prince Aemond rode Vhagar - most certainly the biggest dragon the Targaryens still have - during the Dance. My guess is that he will turn out to be the dragon of Viserys I, and Aemond will only bind with him at the beginning of the Dance. Vhagar could have given Aegon II an advantage. But even she was killed in the end. And although it seems that Rhaenyra's side seems to start this whole dragonseed search, I can also see Aegon's side losing one of their riders early on, so that they, too, have to find another rider.

But this whole thing clearly shows that Rhaenyra's faction is much bigger than Aegon's. At least within House Targaryen itself. It may really turn out that the Dance is in fact a war of the Great Anal houses/Citadel/Faith against House Targaryen, fought under a pretext through the Hightower-Targaryens (Ser Otto, Queen Alicent). This could also explain why and how the war was continued after Rhaenyra's death. Although it seems that all of her elder sons either died before or with her, else there would be another claimant on her side before Aegon III. But especially her husband seems to have survived the whole war, and thus may be crucial in the post-Rhaenyra-Dance.

There are no summaries of the reading yet. Just one answer to a few questions I posted over there in the Capclave thread over in the Brotherhood Without Banners board.

So many questions and so much we may never know.

Will we ever get any insight into how the Targaryens tamed, trained and bonded with their dragons?

The wiki states that although armies marched and met in brutal combat, most of the battles were fought in the air (dragons) and on the water (navy). Since the Greyjoys likely kept out of the war, its seems likely that the Reach declared for Aegon due to his mother (Alicent Hightower) and the royal fleet sided with Rhaenyra.

[Stark Revenge]

Twitter link:

https://twitter.com/bexclaere

Tweeted that GRRM read a Barristan and a Tyrion chapter.

Some of this girl's posts are pretty intresting, such as GRRM saying that in hindsight maybe he shouldve made Robb a POV and that D&D will be using material from Feast and Dance in season 4.

[Adara]

Thank you Alys Rivers :)