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Would Stannis kneel down for Dany?


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#1 ymaface

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:04 AM

If in the future Stannis comes across Daenerys will he give up his claim to the throne or keep on justifying his own claim? Down on paper Daenerys has the best claim but maybe he could argue that through right of conquest he is still the rightful heir? What do you guys think? I can't imagine Stannis kneeling down for anybody.



#2 IRON BANK

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:07 AM

If in the future Stannis comes across Daenerys will he give up his claim to the throne or keep on justifying his own claim? Down on paper Daenerys has the best claim but maybe he could argue that through right of conquest he is still the rightful heir? What do you guys think? I can't imagine Stannis kneeling down for anybody.

 

Stannis feels throught right of coquest that he is the rightful ruler of Westeros.  Stannis will not yeild to Dany.



#3 JuicyM

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:11 AM

Iron doesn't bend



#4 Ser Greg of House House

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:14 AM

There's no reason why Stannis would bend the knee for anyone unless he's ultimately conquered. Even then I have my doubts, but if he didn't think he has any chances and they offered him Storm's End. Though I don't see how that could happen. I believe he would rather die than become a hostage... I also don't see how they would allow him to take the black. So I believe it's highly unlikely.

 

Though dragons could play a big part in that. After all, it was basically common sense that Targs were undisputed with dragons. So he could appease his pride thinking 'well, against dragons not even my big brother'.


Edited by Dany the Mad Queen, 11 October 2013 - 02:14 AM.


#5 Victarion Chainbreaker

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

Stannis doesn't want to be the King, he sees it as his duty, and Dany has a better claim. I think he will kneel to Dany.



#6 Ser Greg of House House

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:16 AM

Stannis doesn't want to be the King, he sees it as his duty, and Dany has a better claim. I think he will kneel to Dany.

 

How does that make any sense? He has the better claim because he fights for the Baratheon dynasty. If he believed Dany was the rightful heir he would've offered her his army already.



#7 IRON BANK

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:16 AM

Iron doesn't bend

 

"What does not bend eventually breaks"  this is a common theme throughout the series I do not see Stannis making it. He will go out in a blaze of Glory.



#8 TrulyJustMan

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:22 AM

If she has the dragons and there are no tricks Mel could possibly pull, then He might bend. Otherwise - not a chance.



#9 Petyr Patter

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

If in the future Stannis comes across Daenerys will he give up his claim to the throne or keep on justifying his own claim? Down on paper Daenerys has the best claim but maybe he could argue that through right of conquest he is still the rightful heir? What do you guys think? I can't imagine Stannis kneeling down for anybody.

One unlawful rebellion does not justify a second unlawful rebellion.  Stannis is Robert's lawful heir.  Either Robert was the lawful king, or Stannis has been engaging in treason for the last 13 years.  He some time ago accepted that Robert is the lawful king.  Heck, under the "any male before any female" Targaryen tradition of inheritence established after the Dance of Dragons civil war Robert and Stannis Baratheon still might have a better claim to being Aerys's heir then Daenerys.

 

PS)  Robert never claims "right of conquest" as far as I can tell. It is better described as "Aerys is unfit to be king.  Therefore as a great-grandson of Aegon V, I am a legitimate alternative who is fit to be king."  This is very similar to the reasoning that put Aegon V on the throne, only Robert did it though war while Aegon V did it through a Great Council.  Which is why he kept pretty much all the Targaryen institutions intact: the Iron Throne, the Small Council, the Office of the Hand, the Red Keep, the Kingsguard, etc.  Despite the different last name, Robert Baratheon ruled very similar to Aegon the Conqueror.

 

PPS) And lets not act like Aegon the Conqueror had some super legal framework for his conquest.  He killed three kings (Mern, Greyiron, and Durrendon) and forced the surrender of two kings (Stark and Lannister).  The conquest was completed by trading the Crown of House Arryn for a dragon ride.  Dorne was brought into the "conquest" later through a series of marriage pacts. 



#10 Laime Jannister

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

If in the future Stannis comes across Daenerys will he give up his claim to the throne or keep on justifying his own claim? Down on paper Daenerys has the best claim but maybe he could argue that through right of conquest he is still the rightful heir? What do you guys think? I can't imagine Stannis kneeling down for anybody.

 

Stannis is going to justify his own claim until his crown burns him to ashes.  But, on the question of who has the better claim...

 

I would argue Dany has a competing claim, not necessarily a better one.  Given that Dany has little support in Westeros (no lords have openly declared for her) and the lords that would have declared for her are fighting for Aegon, I would have to say Stannis has the better claim.   Granted Stannis is losing his seat of power while fighting the dregs of Westeros for the frozen North, so the support of his claim isnt necessarily worth that much.



#11 Victarion Chainbreaker

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:25 AM

 

How does that make any sense? He has the better claim because he fights for the Baratheon dynasty. If he believed Dany was the rightful heir he would've offered her his army already.

The boards have been over this many, many times. The only reason Robert became king instead of Ned, Tywin, John Arryn, or Hoster Tully is because he has a Targaryan grandmother. He didn't win the Kingdoms by conquest, the Lannisters took the capital and killed the King, only they could claim right by conquest. Robert is King because of his Targaryan blood, and Dany's claim is thus better.



#12 Ser Greg of House House

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:32 AM

The boards have been over this many, many times. The only reason Robert became king instead of Ned, Tywin, John Arryn, or Hoster Tully is because he has a Targaryan grandmother. He didn't win the Kingdoms by conquest, the Lannisters took the capital and killed the King, only they could claim right by conquest. Robert is King because of his Targaryan blood, and Dany's claim is thus better.

 

Very, very debatable. Targaryen blood was one element of his claim. I'm not one to say it didn't matter at all. But you make it sound as if it was all about Targ blood, I believe you're really overestimating the weight of it.

 

If Bob wasn't a Targ grandson, would it change anything? Maybe it would be Ned on the throne, maybe Tywin, though I doubt it. But still, Targs would be deposed anyway.

 

Using that argument to say Stannis will simply bend the knee to Dany is an exaggeration of the exaggeration.



#13 TalalOfDorne

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:35 AM

Aint gonna happen.

#14 Crowford

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:40 AM

The boards have been over this many, many times. The only reason Robert became king instead of Ned, Tywin, John Arryn, or Hoster Tully is because he has a Targaryan grandmother. He didn't win the Kingdoms by conquest, the Lannisters took the capital and killed the King, only they could claim right by conquest. Robert is King because of his Targaryan blood, and Dany's claim is thus better.

 

Yeah, as an extremely flimsy justification to appease a few superstitious fools who thought that it was unlucky for the realm to kill a lawful king, and a few armchair Targaryn loyalists who would feel bad with someone completely unrelated sitting on the Throne, but not bad enough to actually oppose him.

 

Robert took the throne because one of those three had to. And Robert was young, embodied knightly and kingly values (at least in appearance), and as a Baratheon was considered more "local" than a Stark from the grim and distant north. Also, while all three might not have wanted it, I am pretty sure Robert was at least partial to the idea of being KIng, unlike Ned.

 

Really, I don't see how this would be seen as anything other than right by conquest. He and his allies (that Tywin acted independently is not clear to those not involved) killed the King, killed his heir, killed his heir's heir, killed his heir's heir's heir, then bypassed two other heirs. And then he went "Yep, now I am next in line. Seems legit"? No one in their right mind could think that Robert has any claim by bloodline to the Iron Throne. Including Robert himself.



#15 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:48 AM

When will people learn? Stannis never bends.

And he have no reason to. He is Robert's rightfull heir and even when it comes to Targ dynasty he may even have a better claim than Dany herself. The point is Stannis never bends.

 

/thread



#16 Tywin Manderly

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:03 AM

Absolutely not!



#17 Victarion Chainbreaker

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:07 AM

 

Very, very debatable. Targaryen blood was one element of his claim. I'm not one to say it didn't matter at all. But you make it sound as if it was all about Targ blood, I believe you're really overestimating the weight of it.

 

If Bob wasn't a Targ grandson, would it change anything? Maybe it would be Ned on the throne, maybe Tywin, though I doubt it. But still, Targs would be deposed anyway.

 

Using that argument to say Stannis will simply bend the knee to Dany is an exaggeration of the exaggeration.

The crux of the matter is that Aerys was considered too mad to rule, and all his descendants were assumed to share his madness and thus disbarred from the inheritance. If a perfectly sane Dany shows up in Westeros then the Baratheon claim will be significantly weakened.

 

Realistically though, I think Stannis is the only current claimant to the Iron Throne who actually would step aside for someone else with a better claim. For the realm to come together to fight the White Walkers, the disparate forces should unite, and this is a way to do so. Or everyone could die.


Edited by Victarion the Awesome, 11 October 2013 - 03:14 AM.


#18 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:11 AM

The crux of the matter is that Aerys was considered too mad to rule, and all his descendants were assumed to share his madness and thus disbarred from the inheritance. If a perfectly sane Dany shows up in Westeros then the Baratheon claim will be significantly weakened.

Sane Dany is oxymoron.

 

Also we don't know how Targ line of succession works.



#19 Minsc

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:12 AM

The crux of the matter is that Aerys was considered too mad to rule, and all his descendants were assumed to share his madness and thus disbarred from the inheritance. If a perfectly sane Dany shows up in Westeros then the Baratheon claim will be significantly weakened.

 

Yeah, I doubt many people are going to feeling that when Dany arrives.



#20 Old-Growth

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:23 AM

When will people learn? Stannis never bends.
And he have no reason to. He is Robert's rightfull heir and even when it comes to Targ dynasty he may even have a better claim than Dany herself. The point is Stannis never bends.
 


So he will burn instead?