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how did bloodraven go from hand of the king to weirnet?


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#1 obie07

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:06 AM

Bloodraven

#2 Arya kiddin'

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:11 AM

We don't have any info on that. That will likely be explored in the upcoming DnE novellas. We can only speculate as to why he was exiled, but those theories will lack textual evidence.

 

ETA: Welcome to the forums. :cheers:


Edited by Arya kiddin', 15 October 2013 - 01:11 AM.


#3 Kienn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:13 AM

1. Fired

2. Imprisoned

3. Sent to the Wall

4. ???

5. Wiernet



#4 Apple Martini

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:15 AM

We don't know. He did something to piss off Maekar, who had him dumped into the black cells. Aegon V sent him to the Wall when Aemon went to take his vows.

 

I'm far more curious to know how he got from the Wall to the tree and what the Watch thinks happened to him, and why no one talks about him. The half-Targaryen, ex-Hand of the King, albino sorcerer Lord Commander of the Night's Watch falling off the face of the earth isn't something that happens every day. Even though it probably happened before just about everyone in the Watch now joined, we've seen Jon and Sam be pretty well-versed in Watch history. It's a weird thing for absolutely no one to remark upon.



#5 MasterJack

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:24 AM

Denys Mallister might know. I get the impression this information will tell us if BR is Good or Evil.  If good, Tywin Good or Ned Good.



#6 ♛ Queen Alysanne ♛

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:25 AM

That guy has soo many secrets I dont trust him one bit.



#7 mindchap

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:26 AM

When we first meet Bloodraven he is camping in a grove of Weirwood stumps, kinda fitting in a way.



#8 Paper Waver

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:27 AM

During the Blackfyre Rebellion Maekar served as one of the Targaryen force's commanders. It was his shield wall that held against the "mad" attack of his uncle Bittersteel in the Battle of the Redgrass Field. When his brother Baelor Breakspear attacked the rebel army from the rear the battle was won. Later a song was made about the battle named the Hammer and the Anvil, with Baelor the hammer and Maekar the anvil.

 

Nevertheless, Maekar felt unappreciated. The victory was more attributed to his brother and the errors of Daemon Blackfyre then to his efforts. In other things he also stood in the shadow of his brothers, wounding his pride. Raymun Fossoway said of him:

 

Not as bold as Prince Baelor, nor as clever as Prince Aerys nor as gentle as Prince Rhaegel, and now he must suffer seeing his own sons overshadowed by his brother's.

 

In the Great Spring Sickness, King Daeron and the children of Maekar's brother Baelor died. Maekar's brother Aerys I succeeded to the throne and appointed their bastard uncle Bloodraven as Hand. Maekar had expected to be appointed Hand and could not get along with Bloodraven, so he withdrew from court to his residence at Summerhall.

After Aerys's death, Maekar took the Iron Throne and had Bloodraven imprisoned. For seven years of his reign, a hot summer persisted. Some thought it was the Great Summer come at last. When it broke it was followed by a short autumn and a long, cold winter.


Edited by Lamprey, 15 October 2013 - 01:28 AM.


#9 mindchap

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:29 AM

That guy has soo many secrets I dont trust him one bit.

And Bloodraven liked it that way:

Egg shook his head. "No, ser. I knew I was in trouble when the maester showed Lord Butterwell my ring. I thought about saying that I'd stolen it, but I didn't think he would believe me. Then I remembered this one time I heard my father talking about something Lord Bloodraven said, about how it was better to be frightening than frightened, so I told them that my father had sent us here to spy for him, that he was on his way here with an army, that His Lordship had best release me and give up this treason, or it would mean his head." He smiled a shy smile. "It worked better than I thought it would, ser."


#10 Apple Martini

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:31 AM

That guy has soo many secrets I dont trust him one bit.

 

He's actually one of those guys who is so obviously seen as diabolical and evil that of course he's actually a good guy. GRRM doesn't give the sorcery talk and all the fear and paranoia in the D&E stories just to actually make him a villain.

 

 

<snip>

 

Exactly. It's all a front.


Edited by Apple Martini, 15 October 2013 - 01:32 AM.


#11 ♛ Queen Alysanne ♛

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:38 AM

 

He's actually one of those guys who is so obviously seen as diabolical and evil that of course he's actually a good guy. GRRM doesn't give the sorcery talk and all the fear and paranoia in the D&E stories just to actually make him a villain.

 

 

I dont necessarily see him as a villain but I see him as an enemy to AAR, so he could be good if AAR is evil or just have different aims then Mel.


Edited by Queen_Alysanne, 15 October 2013 - 01:39 AM.


#12 mindchap

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:42 AM

I do hope that we get more of his full story, either in the novels or maybe as a recurring character in the novellas who Dunk maybe doesn't figure out until the very end if he figures it out at all. I'd love a Plumm's eye view of the Redgrass Field, but his full story will no doubt be left a mystery until closer to the end if we even get it at all.



#13 Arya kiddin'

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:14 AM

I'm far more curious to know how he got from the Wall to the tree and what the Watch thinks happened to him, and why no one talks about him. The half-Targaryen, ex-Hand of the King, albino sorcerer Lord Commander of the Night's Watch falling off the face of the earth isn't something that happens every day. Even though it probably happened before just about everyone in the Watch now joined, we've seen Jon and Sam be pretty well-versed in Watch history. It's a weird thing for absolutely no one to remark upon.

 

.......................................................................................CRACKPOT TIME...............................................................................

 

I believe he used glamors similar to Mel. The real Bloodraven travelled to the cave of COTF and became a greenseer. The fake one ruled as LC of the NW, then died peacefully and was burned away. Of course, whether he found about the cave before he came to the wall or after is debatable; same for whether he ever ruled as LC or it was the fake all along. More probable: He found about the cave, set up a decoy back at the wall and went to the cave permanently. :)


Edited by Arya kiddin', 15 October 2013 - 02:15 AM.


#14 obie07

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:50 AM

Thank you all. Some good theories here. I've always been intrigued by bloodravens story and after reading dunk and egg even more so. Maybe WoW will reveal more about his past.

#15 Valandui

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:39 AM

 

He's actually one of those guys who is so obviously seen as diabolical and evil that of course he's actually a good guy. GRRM doesn't give the sorcery talk and all the fear and paranoia in the D&E stories just to actually make him a villain.

 

 

 

Exactly. It's all a front.

I also get the impression that Aegon actually came to like him.   That could explain why he sent him with Aemon.  I'll be very interested to find out more of how that whole thing went down.



#16 Bael's Bastard

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

I seem to recall from one of the Dunk and Egg books that Maekar expected to be made Hand of the King after his brother Baelor died, and that he withdrew from court and went to reside in Summerhall when Bloodraven was named Hand.  So Maekar seemed to have issues with Bloodraven long before he became king and had the power to imprison him.  Bloodraven may not have done anything more recently to make Maekar do that, it could be based on whatever he already had against him over a decade before he became king.

 

It also makes sense to me that Egg would have taken a different stance toward Bloodraven than his father, at least behind the scenes.  Egg seems like he might have been more positively inclined toward the magical or mystical.  Egg's oldest brother had dreams about dragons, his uncle king Aerys was very bookish and apparently read about the return of dragons in a prophecy, either he or his son Jaehaerys arranged for Aerys II and Rhaella to marry based on a prophecy that the PTWP would be born from their line, and apparently Egg may have died trying to hatch dragons at Summerhall.


Edited by Bael's Bastard, 16 October 2013 - 11:44 AM.


#17 Jon 'Ghost' Targaryn

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

This via a AWOIAF:

On the Wall, Brynden Rivers becomes Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. But eventually, he absconds to the lands beyond the Wall and joins the Children of the Forest, who hail him as the last of the greenseers. There, merging with a great weirwood, his body slowly withers as his life span draws out, and he watches the world around him with a thousand eyes and onethrough the eyes of ravens and weirwoods throughout the realmand awaits the birth of Bran Stark, another greenseer, who will be needed in a time when the fate of the world and all who live in it are in danger.

Seems from this Bloodraven is for the good of the realm. If you haven't purchased the AWOIAF app, you should there is a lot of answers in there that I see people asking about in these threads.

#18 Jon 'Ghost' Targaryn

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:41 AM

Here all the info provided by AWOIAF, hope it can help give some info into what kinda man Bloodraven is.

Brynden Rivers is one of the Great Bastards born to King Aegon IV the Unworthy, and his mother is the popular Melissa Blackwood. Born an albino, his pallid skin and white hair are striking enough, but the wine-stain birthmark that spreads across his cheekthat some claim looks like a red ravenearns him the name of Bloodraven. His personal arms are a white dragon with red eyes, in flight. Smaller than his more robust half brothers, Daemon Blackfyre and Aegor Rivers, Brynden instead excels with his bow and his wits.

Ser Aegor and he quarrel over their half sister, the beautiful Shiera Seastar, but she chooses Brynden as her lover. When Daemon rises against King Daeron, Brynden chooses to fight for the king. Carrying Dark Sistera sword of Valyrian steel once wielded by Queen Visenya and Prince Aemon the Dragonknighthe leads his personal guard, the Raven's Teeth, into battle. From a ridge above the Redgrass Field, his bowman and he rain arrows down on Daemon's army, and it is later said that, with his weirwood longbow, he sends the arrows that killed Daemon and his sons, Aegon and Aemon.

Bittersteel rallies the remaining rebel forces and makes a last, mad charge, but Bloodraven meets him. The two fight a terrible duel, and Bloodraven loses an eye to his half brother before Bittersteel at last gives up the battle and flees. Bloodraven returns to court and, after the Great Spring Sickness that kills King Daeron the Good and his grandsons who were his next immediate heirs, becomes Hand to King Aerys, Daeron the Good's son. He begins to control access to the king, and it is said throughout the realm that he has a thousand eyes and one, for he seems to know everything that takes place. Some even claim that he and Shiera practice sorcery.

He quarrels with Prince Maekar, who remains sullenly at Summerhall until Aerys dies without issue. Upon ascending the throne, Maekar throws Bloodraven into the dungeons, and he is only released after Maekar's son, Aegon V, comes to the throne. Even then, he is sent away with Maester Aemon to the Wall.

On the Wall, Brynden Rivers becomes Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. But eventually, he absconds to the lands beyond the Wall and joins the Children of the Forest, who hail him as the last of the greenseers. There, merging with a great weirwood, his body slowly withers as his life span draws out, and he watches the world around him with a thousand eyes and onethrough the eyes of ravens and weirwoods throughout the realmand awaits the birth of Bran Stark, another greenseer, who will be needed in a time when the fate of the world and all who live in it are in danger.

When Bran and the Reeds finally arrive, Brynden promises that, though Bran can never walk again, he can fly. With the aid of the children, Bran begins to learn the arts of the greenseers.

#19 Anath

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

What intrigues me in Egg's quote about being frightening and frightened is;

 

1. That Maekar would be aware of Bloodraven's preferences in this respect. If their relationship was as hostile as we are led to believe, Maekar would hardly have knowledge about Bloodraven's preferred tactics. Bloodraven wouldn't share with just anyone, even the Small Council which Maekar was not part of anyway. In fact, he strikes me as a guy who wants everyone to fear him. Especially his enemies. He would hardly say it with an enemy (Maekar) in attendance.

 

2. That Maekar would comment on Bloodraven's words, probably in a positive way since Egg drew inspiration out of them to spin a tale of his own to save himself and Dunk. I would think that Maekar would not bother mentioning Bloodraven at all, least of all in a positive way.

 

Of course, that was before Bloodraven was made Hand. My two cents are on the chance that those two disliked each other but they were not enemies and they did not fear each other. If Stannis is anything to go by, I think Maekar's problem was more with his brother who made the choice than Bloodraven who simply benefited from it.

 

No way will I believe that Bloodraven is as sinister and evil as he wants people to believe.


Edited by Anath, 16 October 2013 - 11:46 AM.


#20 Jon 'Ghost' Targaryn

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:53 AM

What intrigues me in Egg's quote about being frightening and frightened is;
 
1. That Maekar would be aware of Bloodraven's preferences in this respect. If their relationship was as hostile as we are led to believe, Maekar would hardly have knowledge about Bloodraven's preferred tactics. Bloodraven wouldn't share with just anyone, even the Small Council which Maekar was not part of anyway. In fact, he strikes me as a guy who wants everyone to fear him. Especially his enemies. He would hardly say it with an enemy (Maekar) in attendance.
 
2. That Maekar would comment on Bloodraven's words, probably in a positive way since Egg drew inspiration out of them to spin a tale of his own to save himself and Dunk. I would think that Maekar would not bother mentioning Bloodraven at all, least of all in a positive way.
 
Of course, that was before Bloodraven was made Hand. My two cents are on the chance that those two disliked each other but they were not enemies and they did not fear each other. If Stannis is anything to go by, I think Maekar's problem was more with his brother who made the choice than Bloodraven who simply benefited from it.
 
No way will I believe that Bloodraven is as sinister and evil as he wants people to believe.


I agree, I've seen theories saying that BR is actually evil and is up to no good. He's a greenseer and knows of the battle that is to come. He also know that 'The Winged Wolf' (Bran) is going to play a huge role in this. He wanted people to be scared of him because he knew he would get more respect that way. Also another theory that has been clarified by AWOIAF is the Jojen paste.........bran was giving a mixture of weirwood seeds. Sooooo, there's no Jojen paste, sorry!