The Might of Skagos

[Bright Blue Eyes]

9,000. Based on having three major Houses. Most major Houses in the North field somewhat more than 3,000 men.

[Kasporio]

didnt read the last posts. Only the numbers. So. Skagos is as big as scotland. The umbers have 300000 people in their lands. 100000 in the bear islands. I'm a bit numb , drunk and i dont do math but... could i ask where did you found such statistics?

I would object to you that most northerners dont have maesters, fertile soils, forgiving weathers. Mance's horde, from the thenns to the white tree, was of 500000 people. and if Skagos is Scotland (in sizes), the lands beyond the wall would be... Canada ? millions for the former, 35 millions for the latter. Would make sense in a way that there's 5 wildling for a skagosi ok.

But ill never believe skagos is as large as scotland or the lands ocuupied by the wildlings are as huge as canada (even Alaska). The NW easily enough reached the fist mostly by walking, and, according the map, its situated at a third of the wildling lands.

Im not familiar with geography, but walking from Regina (south of canada) to Churchill (hudson bay)... A long walk i guess.

Ok i lack arguments. But it seems very unlikely Skagos hold 100000 people, given they're way of life and technological and social levels. Its said the starks lost hundreds people fighting the skaggs. And it was enough for them to withdraw so even the starks didnt had many thousands soldiers. Robb went south with 20000 people. 1000-1500 for the karstark (a thousand karstark were seeking for jaime after they left Robb host), maybe a thousand umber. Both houses were devoid of young and able bodied men

after the king in the north army left. So... 300000 peoples for the umber that seems accurate ? Really?

Theon stated that 20000 men left from the north, only 2000 came back, most boltons men, maybe 1200?

Rodrik gathered 2000 men to take WF back.

Just saying.

[Dead Wolf]

About 6000 men I'd say

[Bright Blue Eyes]

didnt read the last posts. Only the numbers. So. Skagos is as big as scotland. The umbers have 300000 people in their lands. 100000 in the bear islands. I'm a bit numb , drunk and i dont do math but... could i ask where did you found such statistics?

I would object to you that most northerners dont have maesters, fertile soils, forgiving weathers. Mance's horde, from the thenns to the white tree, was of 500000 people. and if Skagos is Scotland (in sizes), the lands beyond the wall would be... Canada ? millions for the former, 35 millions for the latter. Would make sense in a way that there's 5 wildling for a skagosi ok.

But ill never believe skagos is as large as scotland or the lands ocuupied by the wildlings are as huge as canada (even Alaska). The NW easily enough reached the fist mostly by walking, and, according the map, its situated at a third of the wildling lands.

Im not familiar with geography, but walking from Regina (south of canada) to Churchill (hudson bay)... A long walk i guess.

Ok i lack arguments. But it seems very unlikely Skagos hold 100000 people, given they're way of life and technological and social levels. Its said the starks lost hundreds people fighting the skaggs. And it was enough for them to withdraw so even the starks didnt had many thousands soldiers. Robb went south with 20000 people. 1000-1500 for the karstark (a thousand karstark were seeking for jaime after they left Robb host), maybe a thousand umber. Both houses were devoid of young and able bodied men

after the king in the north army left. So... 300000 peoples for the umber that seems accurate ? Really?

Theon stated that 20000 men left from the north, only 2000 came back, most boltons men, maybe 1200?

Rodrik gathered 2000 men to take WF back.

Just saying.

Westeros is a continent 70% bigger than Europe and I mean Europe from Cap Finisterra to the Ural and the North Cap to Sicily. The NW reached the Fist by walking (or riding), but that's the way people moved around before the invention of cars. A long walk, but they needed several months.

It's a common misconception to compare the Seven Kingdoms to England at first, but it's utterly wrong. Four climate zones from Dorne to the Land of Always Winter. Thousands of miles. Months of travel. Four years of action in the books.

By the way, Mance sported only 100,000 men, not 500,000. The Beyond-the-Wall is sparsely settled, but it could feed way, way more.

2,300 Karstarks went south. 4,000 Boltons. Another 600 Boltons were garrisoned at the Dreadfort. The Karstarks put another 700 men in the field in Dance. The Umbers 1,000. The Mormonts at least as many. The clans 3,000+. The Dustins and Rhyswells attacked the Fever River with 2,000, just mopping up the remaining Ironborn. Manderly can man 50 wargalleys and has spares en masse. And that's just a third of the Northern Lords.

[Kasporio]

The umbers. 500 on both sides no ? (whorebane and crowfood) Old men for Hother, kids for Mors. Both umber and Karstark houses were exhausted by the war.

I'm not english by the way. Well i barely speak english or write it correctly so thats obvious. So i'm not prone to compare westeros to England.

But im puzzled to see the amount of informations seemingly so accurate for a place which doesnt exist...

Ok made a mistake bout mance's posse. 50000, not 500000. Im not even close to 100000. 50000 wildlings for 5000 skaggs, and, as said earlier, its very optimistic.

Mormont (the late) said EVERY noble house in the north could gather as much men as the nw. IMO he was joking or boasting. Or he was referring to his own garrison (300?). The north is considered the least populated area after Dorne. And ... 1 to 2 thousands of men for humber and karstark...all the manpower got away.

4 years in the books ? A game of Throne in 298 after aegons landing. Now 300. Ok i dont do math but... Or you mean the prologue when a royce get sliced by a other.

[Valandui]

The elephant in the room is why wouldn't Robb assemble all his bannermen and march with full force? And leave Winterfell with better defenses?

Well, his army was hastily assembled.

[Jessica Rogers]

the people of skagos are a wild card. all we really know is that they live on an island, have 3 major houses, eat the hearts of the enemies and killed some starks.

I think there is going to be more than people think, I can say a number for sure but I think Davo is going to come back to the mainland with Ricken and shaggydog and boat full of Skagosian Heart heart eater.

[Kasporio]

Skagosi, wildlingds crannogmen, clansmen... were never defeated on their grounds. Guerrila warfare, its all they know. They'll never stand the ground in a battle. That's why Wyman said to Davos he had more cavalry than anything in the north.

OK some warriors, even lacking discipline, could be useful.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

9,000. Based on having three major Houses. Most major Houses in the North field somewhat more than 3,000 men.

Going by that logic the mountain clans would have around 21,000 with 7 houses and the neck with 9 houses 27,000.

[BranBrokeLegs]

Skagos has exactly enough fighting men to further the narrative in the direction that GRRM chooses to take it. No more and no less. Everyone keeps trying to fanfic, retcon and conjecture exactly how many fighters the North has, but it doesn't have a set number of fighters, its whatever GRRM chooses. It's not like he made up a total number before book 1 and has been diligently tracking it as time goes by. The remaining numbers fluctuate based on story need.

It's the same thing with the Lannister's gold. They have exactly what they need to move the story along. There is no set amount.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Going by that logic the mountain clans would have around 21,000 with 7 houses and the neck with 9 houses 27,000.

Major Houses. Jon Snow compares the mountain clans to petty Lords. The Houses of the Neck are petty Lords sworn to House Reed - who in turn is likely to provide 3,000 men himself.

[Lord Klax Stark]

Even with that said he has to at least be realistic with the numbers, otherwise it would just be poor writing. GRRM isnt going to pull a completely ridiculous figure out of his hat. That's what this thread is dedicated to, as is pretty much every other numbers thread; We as readers are trying to figure out what is realistic

[TheNorthernWarrior]

You have to remember the North was not preparing to invade the south when the war broke out. Ned gave orders to repair defenses and man Moat Cailin, but not to raise an invading army (because this costs more monies). So the armies Robb took with him were simply the standing armies available and willing at the time. It does not represent what he could have raised if given say a year to prepare. Just look at Manderly and the army and navy he has been able to raise, or even the Lannisters and the fact they've raised 2 additional armies since the start of the war. The real question is why didn't Ser Rodrick raise another army in Winterfell when he got back? He probably should have had another 5-10k infantry in preparation to go to reinforce the army in the South or defend the North, the only answer is for plot reasons.

My guess for Skagos is that given time they might be able to muster 5k men, but we also don't know if other houses joined in the rebellion. Likely what happened is that Skagos stopped paying tribute/taxes to WInterfell and maybe even started to raid coastlines Ironborn style, so the Starks had to put a stop to it. In this kind of scenario its not like it would be the whole North vs Skagos, it would be Starks and maybe a small handful of Houses affected by the raiding. Most houses would simply stay out of it, let the Starks due their job. So the battle may have been 10k vs 5k or something along those lines, 2 to 1 in favour of Starks, but it likely was fought on Skagos giving them the home terrain advantage, hence why it was close enough of a Battle for a Stark to die.

[BranBrokeLegs]

Even with that said he has to at least be realistic with the numbers, otherwise it would just be poor writing. GRRM isnt going to pull a completely ridiculous figure out of his hat. That's what this thread is dedicated to, as is pretty much every other numbers thread; We as readers are trying to figure out what is realistic

Realistic could be as low as 500 poorly armed fighters. Or it could be 2,000 armed similarly to the mountain clans. We don't know enough about Skagos to make a good guess. GRRM leaves his numbers ambiguous, so he isn't boxed in when he needs more troops in the future.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Realistic could be as low as 500 poorly armed fighters. Or it could be 2,000 armed similarly to the mountain clans. We don't know enough about Skagos to make a good guess. GRRM leaves his numbers ambiguous, so he isn't boxed in when he needs more troops in the future.

... which he already did by changing the Dustins and Rhyswells from unimportant Lords to pretty much the third most powerful bannermen of the Starks after Manderly and Bolton when he scrapped the five year gap (and therefore the chance to train replacements for the other Houses). Obviously he needs the manpower for the North here and now and is likely to push the Skagosi upwards as well.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

I feel like skagos' strength is only around 1,000 to 2,000 men

[Lord Klax Stark]

Realistic could be as low as 500 poorly armed fighters. Or it could be 2,000 armed similarly to the mountain clans. We don't know enough about Skagos to make a good guess. GRRM leaves his numbers ambiguous, so he isn't boxed in when he needs more troops in the future.

You see thats where I disagree with you. Since Skagos is an island Chain roughly the size of Scotland, I think that it should have closer to 5k men instead of 2k. To put it into perspective, Dealaware, which is a tiny ass state, was able to feild 10k men for the civil war even though it only had a population of about 110k. Sure that was during the civil war, and not the middle ages, but the point is that figures can surprise you

[im317]

the real question is how many unicorn riders can they field?

[juanml82]

the real question is how many unicorn riders can they field?

Hear Hear!

[jarl the climber]

I'd be suprised if they could feild more than 3,000 men. These men are probaly poorly equiped but are well suited to winter fighting conditions. We have been told that there are very few unicorns left so I doubt that are many riders.