Audrey Arryn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 You think after the events of the last book, he'll become darker? What would it mean to be in the ice side, I don't think he'd side with the Others. Maybe not others but ice as in opposition to Dany's fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Maybe not others but ice as in opposition to Dany's fire.Hmm, you mean like different levels within the conflict. So maybe those on the side of ice want to defeat the Others using one method while those on the fire side want to use another method. They both are after the same goal (destroying the Others) but want to go about it different ways, yet eventually they'll have to realize that they'll need to work together in order to succeed.ETA: Perhaps that'll be the purpose of Bran and BR to get the two sides to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hmm, you mean like different levels within the conflict. So maybe those on the side of ice want to defeat the Others using one method while those on the side of fire want to use another method. They both are after the same goal (destroying the Others) but want to go about it different, yet eventually they'll have to realize they they'll need to work together to succeed. Yea thats exactly what I mean :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Yea thats exactly what I mean :DSweet, I like that. GRRM surely loves his layers.Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.I'm wondering what this means. Could it be that she'll see herself from a different perspective (from the outside looking in) an wont like what she sees, what she has become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think that AAR and TPtwP refer to the same person. There is some textual evidence, at least, that the prophecies do refer to the same person. In saying that, I don't believe that Jon represents Ice. Instead he represents both i.e he is the balance between ice and fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think that AAR and TPtwP refer to the same person. There is some textual evidence, at least, that the prophecies do refer to the same person. In saying that, I don't believe that Jon represents Ice. Instead he represents both i.e he is the balance between ice and fire.Well, I think that's still up for debate. GRRM in this SSM http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DIe0Q3PgcOw says that Melisandre equates them, but it's unclear whether or not they are truly the same. I tend to believe that as prophesies can be interpret in different ways they can also be fulfilled by multiple characters. Perhaps we might never know who AAR or the PTWP truly were, and I'm not sure it'll matter in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Well, I think that's still up for debate. GRRM in this SSM http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DIe0Q3PgcOw says that Melisandre equates them, but it's unclear whether or not they are truly the same. I tend to believe that as prophesies can be interpret in different ways they can also be fulfilled by multiple characters. Perhaps we might never know who AAR or the PTWP truly were, and I'm not sure it'll matter in the end. It's not just the video interview. Both Mel and Aemon use AA and TPtwP interchangebly. Aemon initially believed Rhaegar to be TPtwP because he was born amidst the smoke of Summerhall and the tears of those grieving. Rhaegar later believed Aegon to be TPtwP because a comet was seen over KL on the day of his conception. Rhaegar believed the comet to be the bleeding star. Aemon, just before his death, believes Dany to be TPtwP because she is the one born amidst smoke and salt. So there is an overlap between the two prophecies in the text that suggest it refers to the same person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Dead Just Broken Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The "swords of pale fire" line is interesting. It's somewhat reminiscent of Dawn which is described as both glowing and pale. After this, Dany grows wings and jumps out of a building. A woman jumping out of a building is also rather reminiscent of House Dayne, particularly Ashara Dayne who is said to have thrown herself out of a window at Starfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Does this mean Rhaego's death was not caused by Mirri Maz Duur? That it is a birth defect likely in Targaryens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It is interesting that the "Dragon" aspect of her personality is preventing her from reaching the house through the red door, which I tend to believe represents Dany's true happiness. So as she wakes the Dragon, so to does she get farther away from happiness. Rather poetic really. This is very true and it's a recurring pattern in Dany's story. She just can't be the person she wants to be; she spends her time in Meereen dreaming about having a family with Daario in a house with the red door, but by the end of ADwD she comes to the realisation that she can never be that person. “Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WELSH DR46ON Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think AA and TPTWP are the same person, as is the stallion that mounts the world. Different parts of the world and different cultures have a different name for him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhineHaus Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run. “... don’t want to wake the dragon." At first, I thought the icy breath symbolized the emerging dragon within Dany (I know it's ice, but still...). And if Dany gave into her dragon (which seems to have happened), it would ultimately lead to her death. Death by a consuming ambition and rage.But then I remembered a quote by GRRM about the qualities of ice and fire. To paraphrase him, the icy breath could represent vengeance and betrayal. Taking that into consideration, we have a couple broad interpretations. One, it foreshadows Dany fleeing from those who might want to exact vengeance upon her (Slaver's Bay, The Harpy). Two, it could be Dany's own desire for revenge, should she give into it, that will ultimately do her under. Betrayal is something Dany's experienced, to the point it's made her untrusting and scrutinizing of everyone around her. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. “... the dragon..." And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars. The red door has always represented Dany's ideal of home, security, and peace. Here, we see Dany finally reach her coveted home only to find that peacefulness replaced by "the dragon." Tragically, I'm not sure Dany will ever find the peace she wants in life, and death might be her only reprieve. If that's the case, I do believe Dany will be the last Targaryen, the last dragon.Also, the whispering of stars reminds me of Dany's hallucinations in the Dothraki sea at the end of ADWD: "Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman's voice. "The dragons know. Do you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think AA and TPTWP are the same person, as is the stallion that mounts the world. Different parts of the world and different cultures have a different name for him/her. The AAR and PTWP prophecies are up to debate if whether or not they are the same thing. However, TSWMTW has pretty much been foreshadowed as being Dany. The crone told Dany that it was going to be Rhaego but I think it was Dany all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Also, the whispering of stars reminds me of Dany's hallucinations in the Dothraki sea at the end of ADWD: Great find! Quaithe is such an enigmatic figure, it's interesting to see that there are hints of her in AGOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The "swords of pale fire" line is interesting. It's somewhat reminiscent of Dawn which is described as both glowing and pale. After this, Dany grows wings and jumps out of a building. A woman jumping out of a building is also rather reminiscent of House Dayne, particularly Ashara Dayne who is said to have thrown herself out of a window at Starfall. I Wonder if they are different from Jamie and Brienne's in Jamie's dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 It intriguing that the STWMTW prophecy wasnt anyone Dothraki but rather someone born a continent away and have completely different blood I wonder where they got the prophecy from and who saw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooseman Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 What if the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai are the same thing, but made up of three people? Does that make sense? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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